Who were the 'Wu Hu' or Five Barbarians and what led to their migrations and conquests during the Sixteen Kingdom period? I'm particularly interested in the Jié and their demise after the Wei-Jié war.

As my post history might betray I have a bit of an obsession when it comes to steppe nomads. the Xiongnu are one of my favorite subjects, and while the information available regarding this massive multi-ethnic steppe confederation is not as vast as I would like, there still is plenty to read.

However when I want to look into the post Xiongnu empire period, it suddenly becomes harder to find information and learn what happened. I'd be very interested in reading English translations of the primary sources since classical Chinese isn't an option for me, but I haven't come across any. Well I bought this 2 dollar translated version of the book of Jin, but the translation is as good as you would expect from a 2 dollar e-book.

Anyways I want to find out about these Five Barbarians, particularly the steppe nomad groups, and especially the Jié. There is very little information about them but I find them fascinating.

What I already know is that the Jié were likely Yeniseian speaking, that they had a very distinct look and that under Shi Le the Jié managed to rule the Later Zhao dynasty. This period of rule ended after the Wei-Jie war which lead to a genocide of the Jié on the orders of Ran Min. The Jié were apparently very recognizable due to their features and were promptly executed.

The Book of Jìn describes the Jié with such physical characteristics that today we would attribute to Caucasians: deep eye sockets (深目 shēn mù), high noses (高鼻 kāo bí), and bushy beards (多鬚 duō xū)

However I would like to know the details regarding this piece of history, as well as the general backdrop of the Sixteen Kingdom Period of the Five Barbarians. Here is a list of questions I'd like answered but do not feel pressured to answer them all, I'm not expecting all of them to be able to get answered:

  • What lead to the Five Barbarian uprising and which ethnic groups were part of this uprising?
  • Were groups like the Yuezhi, Wusun or Kangjun still relevant in this time period and were they part of these dynamics?
  • Which states did the various steppe nomads create during the Sixteen Kingdom Period?
  • What do the chinese sources tell us about the Jié? Anything regarding lifestyles, looks or languages?
  • How did Shi Le go from slave to emperor of the Later Zhao?
  • What lead to the Wei-Jie war, and how did it end?
  • What do the sources say about the genocide of the Jié and Xiongnu ordered by Ran Min?
  • What was the fate of Ran Min?
  • Are there any artworks referring to this period? paintings, murals, statues etc.

If most of this can get answered I would be extremely grateful, thanks in advance! It would be cool to get some quoted excerpts from the book of Jin but my hopes are not high regarding that. Honestly even some recommendations of books or publications would be highly appreciated.

For the people interested, here is the only attested phrase of the Jié language:

秀支 替戾剛 僕谷 劬禿當

si̯u-ci̯e - tʰei-let/lei-kɑŋ - bok/buk-kuk/yo - ɡi̯u̯o-tʰuk-tɑŋ

army - go out - Liu Yao*'s barbarian title - capture*

Yeniseian interpretation:

suke t-i-r-ek-ang bok-kok k-o-t-o-kt-ang

Armies have gone out. [They] will catch Bokkok.

Oh and if you share this steppe nomad obsession with me please check out r/TheGreatSteppe and r/Xiongnu!

2 Answers 2020-03-19

Why have England’s Queens historically been very powerful?

When I think about England’s Queens, people like Queen Elizabeth, Queen Anne, Queen Victoria, and I’m sure there are a few others, they are often portrayed as being extremely strict rulers and expanded the power of the growing British Empire. This power seemed to rival that of Kings who ruled during the same period of colonialism, of which I can’t really name one that was on the same level as these Queens.

So why is that? Especially since England was a male dominated society you would think that the Queens would have less power and be forgotten.

1 Answers 2020-03-19

What happened to West Germans who fell asleep in the East? A couple Qs

Writing a novel set in East Berlin, and having a hard time finding some answers about crossings.

  1. What happened to West Germans who stayed overnight in the East the night the wall went up? You were allowed to cross back to the West as long as you had your papers, correct? And, what if you didn’t have your papers? In general, it’s been tough to find information on the impact and acquisition of your residency papers in the 50s and 60s.

  2. In August 1961, were British and Americans allowed to come into the East? I know the border was closed for 2 years to West Berliners. 

1 Answers 2020-03-19

History of Black/Africans in Japan

Hello there, a few days ago I was lurking in the Portuguese Wikipedia (a very reliable and trustworthy place I know) about Yasuke, the black retainer of Oda Nobunaga and found this curious remark (translated from Portuguese):

Akechi said [Yasuke] was a beast and knew nothing, and, besides, he wasn't Japanese and as such he shouldn't be killed but taken to the nanban-ji (南蛮寺 Souther Barbarian temple).[13][16] It is said the reason of why Akechi spoke as such about Yasuke was to pity him, justifying clearly the reason he won't be killed. Once then blacks weren't discriminated in Japan but actually admired, including Buddha being portrayed as black in Japanese temples.[13]

The source there is Discover Africa―History of African image in Japan (World History series) (2005) by Midori Fujita in Japanese, which I unfortunately can't read and was unable of find any English translation of it (let alone in Portuguese). So do anyone there have any insight about it? Thanks for the attention.

EDIT: My main question is about the claim in italic, was this perception of Africans in premodern Japan real? What about the "black Buddhas"?

2 Answers 2020-03-19

I often hear (in memes primarily) that the Third Reich gave their soldiers amphetamines. How accurate is this, and what were the practiced drugs used by soldiers in WW2 Germany?

I understand that Hitler himself was a drug addict of sorts, but German soldiers and officers doing speed sounds odd.

1 Answers 2020-03-19

Is it true that japanese soldiers were unlikely to develop PTSD compared to americans and europeans after WWII and Why?

I’m planning to do a story about WWII in japanese soldier perspective, So I’m searching for information, And I came to those questions, Also the ones who committed war crimes developed it?

2 Answers 2020-03-19

What is the context of Lincoln's statement "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. "

1 Answers 2020-03-19

So....about the pyramids

What do you historians think about the pyramids of egypt? What, with all the conspiracies, theories, and arguments about how they were built and who built them.

1 Answers 2020-03-19

Best books on Medieval History

What books are the best to read on Medieval History for someone that wants to become a hardcore medievalist?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

Was Hitler a socialist or not?

This is terribly confusing because I grew up, in a German school, learning that the 3rd Reich had many socialist tendencies. Then again i also learned a lot that turned out not to be true.

Could someone help me clear this up? I genuinely don't care if he was or was not, I just want to know.

Side note: I do understand that the nationalists and the socialists in the weimer Republik were the two biggest political fronts and it was therefore really smart to call the party national socialists German workers party.

1 Answers 2020-03-19

How did "special effects" in plays work during Shakespeare's time?

I've been reading Macbeth lately, and it has lots of supernatural occurrences (e.g. Banquo's ghost, the apparitions summoned by the witches, etc.) in it that would probably require some kind of "special effects" to depict. How did theaters during Shakespeare's time go about this? What other kinds of special effects were used during plays?

2 Answers 2020-03-19

Why was US firearm design different than the other powers in WW2?

It seems like you could draw similarities between the standard squad weapons of most of the major powers. An affordable metal SMG in 9mm (or close), a bolt action rifle, even comparisons between the Bren and the Japanese type 96.

But american firearms seem to differ in every category in terms of cost, calibre and other features. They were the only army to field a semi-automatic rifle and a carbine, they also employed an SMG in .45 issued early with only a 20 round magazine. And the BAR served as a squad LMG with, again, only a 20 round magazine.

Soviet, German and British weapons had unique and iconic entries (such as the PPSH and MG42) but it seemed like the US was doing something completely different in almost every category. Is there some over-arching reason why this happened? Some doctrinal difference which generated this design philosophy as a whole? As a side note I'd also appreciate a reason for issuing lower capacity magazines in their automatic weapons in general. Thanks

3 Answers 2020-03-19

Thursday Reading & Recommendations | March 19, 2020

Previous weeks!

Thursday Reading and Recommendations is intended as bookish free-for-all, for the discussion and recommendation of all books historical, or tangentially so. Suggested topics include, but are by no means limited to:

  • Asking for book recommendations on specific topics or periods of history

  • Newly published books and articles you're dying to read

  • Recent book releases, old book reviews, reading recommendations, or just talking about what you're reading now

  • Historiographical discussions, debates, and disputes

  • ...And so on!

Regular participants in the Thursday threads should just keep doing what they've been doing; newcomers should take notice that this thread is meant for open discussion of history and books, not just anything you like -- we'll have a thread on Friday for that, as usual.

6 Answers 2020-03-19

How close was Japan to cracking Navajo code talkers? Was Japan aware Americans were using a Native American language as code?

So far, everything I read about Navajo code talkers were from the American perspective. I'm wondering about the Japanese perspective.

How did Japanese code breakers react to the Navajo language? How close were the Japanese to deciphering Navajo? Were Japanese code breakers even aware they were listening to a Native American language?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

Who inhabited eastern Europe before the arrival of the Slavs?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

"History Upside Down": Announcing the AskHistorians Spring '20 Floating Features and Flair Drive

2 Answers 2020-03-19

I have read that the 30 years war killed 1/3 of Europe. How accurate is this claim and how were people able to determine those numbers before modern censuses?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

What was the the internal organization of a medieval Guild?

Hello!

I have read about Guilds in medieval times to research a project of mine. I think I have a fairly good grip on joining a guild and apprenticeship. I also understand the process of rising in the ranks of Journeyman and Master.

While I understand the purpose and importance of guilds in the structure of public life, I cannot find any information about how Guilds reached decisions about policy or how they judge apprentices. Did they have democratic votes? Were there clerks that handled the bureaucracy who were not craftsmen? Was there a Guild Head who made the important decisions and if so, how was he appointed?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

Why were there so many soldiers in WW1 battleships?

I’m very interested in history but not well-versed. I have found the battle of Jutland to be very interesting but one thing that I couldn’t figure out is why the battleships had over 1000 men on them? Did it really take that many to run things? Or were they doubling as transports? Or is it something else that I’m completely missing?

3 Answers 2020-03-19

Why were there so many adopted children in Three Kingdoms/Han Dynasty?

I am watching the Chinese historical drama, Three Kingdoms (2010) and the ruler Dong has an adopted son, the interior minister has an adopted daughter etc. I know the court servants were eunuchs but the ministers are not right?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

I've read from multiple places that Sejong the Great created the modern Korean alphabet (Hangul) with the help of his scholars. How was this implemented and taught to the point that it was universally known and accepted?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

What was Belgium's linguistic policy in Belgian Congo?

Belgium has three official languages: French, Dutch and German. Nowadays, the official language of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, whose territory encompasses most of the Belgian Congo, is French. Is it because Belgium favored the French language? More generally, what was the language of the administration in Belgian Congo? And of the European population? Which languages were taught at school?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

British mercenaries during the Thirty Years' War

Hello! I am currently writing an essay in a British history course about religion as a cause of unrest in seventeenth century Britain. Among other conflicts, I chose to write about the Thirty Years' War and to what degree religion was a cause of it. That part has gone well, but I am struggling to prove that this war was one that affected / caused unrest in Britain! I read in an introduction of some PhD thesis that there were some 50,000 British mercenaries that contributed in the war, and figured this was enough proof (since a fair share of these soldiers presumably died in battle), but I can't find any sources for this except this: https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/3653 . Considering that it isn't an article, I doubt my professor will approve of it as an academic source... Does anyone know of any credible source that I can use to prove that British soldiers contributed to the Thirty Years' War?

2 Answers 2020-03-19

How And Why Did Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba "Become A Man"?

I was particularly struck by a passage in her wikipedia entry where to overcome gender discrimination, Queen Nzinga "became a man," assuming masculine pursuits and forcing her husbands to dress as women. While this wasn't unprecedented (shades of Hatshepsut), I'm a bit skeptical as to whether the more lurid details might have been added or embellished by European accounts. What would a female leader "becoming a man" have meant for contemporary African cultures? What went into it?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

My great uncle passed away recently, and he was a spy for the US government in Berlin (not sure which side) during the Cold War in the 50s and 60s. He took all his secrets to the grave. What is it likely he did while there?

I also know that he spoke four languages: Russian, English, German, and Spanish. He never once talked about his mission/his work, only that he was stationed in Berlin. Even his wife never knew anything, or if she did she never spoke of it to anybody else. Is most of the work we did at the time in the US still classified, or could someone here shed more light on the subject?

1 Answers 2020-03-19

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