How is the Romani situation in Eastern European so bad despite having gone through the Communist Era? (Full explanation in description)

by MrDigital_

Background

After coming to university and meeting many Eastern European friends, I became aware of apparent issues relating to the Romani community in Eastern Europeans countries. My friends tell me they often live in ghettos, suffer from poverty and generally don't have good levels of education. Basic research I've done on this seems to back this up, and also mentions many other social issues which affect the Romani group.

Strikingly, I found that many (although not all, still a majority) of them are quite openly critical of the Romani population, bordering on what in the West we'd define as racism. I mention this to them, but usually get a response along the lines of "if you lived where I lived, you'd understand". In any case, I realise this attitude towards Romani is purely anecdotal on my part, and quite possibly not at all representative, just thought it was interesting to mention.

I got to thinking as to why there may be many issues relating to the Romani, and got a bit bewildered that this situation exists in many newly democratic Eastern European countries despite having gone through Communism. My reasoning was as follows - despite the flaws in Communism countries which existed, they generally put a high emphasis on education, and I doubt they would have been fond of allowing ghettos or any sort of pseudo-segregation to exist. These two factors combined with the fact these countries had the Totalitarian power to enforce these beliefs led to my confusion about the Romani's current predicament.

Question

How is the Romani situation in Eastern European so bad despite having lived in Communist countries which place value on education, place value on the equality of peoples, and have the power to enforce these last two beliefs?

Side Question (which may really be part of the main question)

How were Romani (sometimes "Gypsy") people treated in Eastern European countries during the Communist Era?

jufnitz

I posted a similar question on /r/socialism a while back in the wake of the whole blonde-kids-can't-possibly-be-Roma travesty (to the effect of "why do liberal and socialist Europeans who claim to hate racism suddenly sound like rabid brownshirts/Klansmen whenever someone mentions the Roma?") and the most helpful response included a good bibliography on the topic of Roma integration, particularly in central and eastern Europe.

morenailpolishplease

Hi! I know I'm six days late on answering this, but I was browsing AskHistorians and stumbled upon your question just now. I'm by no means an expert, but I'm an anthropology student who has spent time in a Romani settlement/ghetto in eastern Slovakia and I might be able to answer your question.

I can only answer for Czechoslovakia because that is the only country I have background in. I will try to provide as much context as possible but also be brief (I tend to digress a lot lol). To sum up the Roma situation after WWII, WWII left the Roma dramatically reduced in size, as well as more socially and economically isolated from the general population than ever before (I can expand on this if you would like). The government conducted a thorough investigation of the Roma's living conditions in the 1950s and described the situation as "catastrophic". Unemployment and illiteracy were rampant; most settlements had no electricity, sewage system, running water, or heating; and diseases that had been eradicated in the general population were still found in settlements. The "Gypsy problem" carried lots of ideological importance for the new Soviet government. There was little tolerance for marginal members of society who did not have regular employment and shunned government supervision as it challenged the party's authority.

The government then began a modernization campaign to assimilate the Roma into mainstream society. The centre piece of this campaign was a "liquidation and dispersal" strategy: The government would liquidate Romani settlements and move residents into new, furnished homes situated in integrated neighbourhoods. Romani citizens being liquidated would also be subjected to compulsory medical examinations; full-time employment would be found for all being liquidated; and education became compulsory for Romani children. Also the expression of Roma culture/identity was heavily repressed during Soviet times.

The results of this campaign after several years were less than satisfactory. By 1965, 45 settlements had been liquidated (around 3,000 people). Most of the employment opportunities created for the Roma consisted of seasonal, unskilled manual labour (thousands were also moved to Czech urban centres to work in industry). Illiteracy and truancy remained a problem, so in response the government set up "special schools" for Romani students that were meant to be temporary (the Slovak school system is still heavily segregated along ethnic lines today). Health, however, did improve amongst the Roma due to mandatory immunizations and medical exams. The campaign suffered from being too ambitious; in addition, government officials assumed ethnic Slovaks would welcome their new Romani neighbours with open arms. Officials and civilians slowed down or sabotaged the liquidation process. Ethnic Slovak citizens destroyed new homes built for the Roma, and many white residents would leave integrated neighbourhoods once the Roma moved in. There is also reports of "disinterest" in the campaign from the Roma, and the Roma not embracing these new opportunities in the way the government hoped they would. For the Roma, lots of the "benefits", such as compulsory education and an eight to ten hour work day, had little value to them and conflicted with their traditions. While the campaign was going on, the Romani population was also growing rapidly compared to the general population. While the results of the campaign were overall underwhelming, the liquidation and dispersal continued until the end of the Soviet era (although many Romani settlements were never liquidated).

The 1970s focused more on gradual integration by improved education and life skills. This seemed to work positively, as the failure rate of Romani students attending elementary school dropped from 40% to 17%. However this was still not satisfactory enough, and the government began to express the view that they had provided full opportunity for integration, and the apparent failure of some Roma to integrate into society resulted from their own choice to adhere to their own culture and embrace a "deviant lifestyle". The government was concerned about the growing gap between the demographics of the Roma and the rest of society (28% of the Slovak population was between 0-14, vs. 46% of the Romani population being between 0-14). In order to deal with this the government launched a family planning program that encouraged voluntary sterilization and abortion for Romani women with cash incentives.

Since the communist dissolved in the 1990s little has been done by the new governments to maintain any of the housing built during the Soviet era, and the lack of maintenance combined with the continually rising population has made living standards amongst the Roma decline. Also with the restructuring of the economy the Roma were amongst the first to lose their jobs, and Slovakia's economy continues to struggle (especially eastern Slovakia, where 2/3 of Slovakia's Roma population resides). Hope this makes sense and please ask any questions!

Sources:

Hurrle, Jakob. 2006. “The Third World in the First World: Development and Renewal Strategies for Rural Roma Ghettoes in Slovakia” pp. 141-163 in Spatial Planning and Urban Development in the New EU Member States, edited by U. Altrock, S. Guntner, and S. Huning. Burlington, VT: Ashgate Publishing Company.

Institute for Public Affairs. 2003. A Global Report on the Roma in Slovakia, edited by M. Vašečka, M. Jurásková, and T. Nicholson. Bratislava: Institute for Public Affairs.

Guy, Will. 2001. “The Czech Lands and Slovakia: Another False Dawn?” Pp. 285-322 in Between Past and Future: The Roma of Central and Eastern Europe, edited by W. Guy. Hertfordshire: University of Hertfordshire Press.

Barany, Zoltan D. 1994. “Living on the Edge: The East European Roma in Postcommunist Politics and Societies.” Slavic Review 53(2):321-344.

Scheffel, David Z. 2005. Svinia in Black and White: Slovak Roma and their Neighbours. Toronto: Broadview Press, Ltd.

[deleted]

First of all I can only speak about the Romani going through communism in Yugoslavia. Yes, education was free and still is (or rather inexpensive). So was healthcare and all those things. And parents were required by law to send their kids at least to elementary school, however this was not enforced. If someone didn't want to put their kids through education and instead have them beg on the streets they could do that. There was never really any strong incentive by the government to integrate these people. To answer your second question, they were treated a bit worse than they are now. Nothing significant changed around that ethnic minority during the years. Except now they have their own members in parliament etc. in some places if you can count that as a benefit for the minority.

You would be wrong in assuming they don't get fair treatment by the state. If anything there are and were cases of positive discrimination for this ethnic minority. Like special education programmes etc. However, it's true that most ordinary non-Roma people view them as second class citizens or a lower life form. There's rarely any direct violence against them or anyone proclaiming they should be exterminated, people view them with as much pity as with hate.

cockworth

In Yugoslavia they were treated like shit, like today, despite the government and communist party doing their best to stop the racism, like including the Roma as well in the free education, health and work organizations.

But the local and federal government can do just that much - give them and encourage Roma to attend education and work - however while there at the institutions they get spit on and shat by the local populace, bullied, so the problem which you see today still remains. Its like the first blacks attending white colleges, getting beaten up and bullied, many of course stopped going or went to only black schools, but there was no only roma schools in SFRJ. The process of integration like this was stopped after Yugoslavia fell apart, now they just dont go to school anymore. Its like stopping civil rights movement when King was shot and reverting to 1910s.

In my opinion the only way to stop this racism, because institutions for decades have little results, is just like in the US is when the oppressed people stand up and demand their rights - both in peaceful Martin Luther King ways and Malcolm X ways, guns in hand.

The Roma however appear to do well outside of society, like today in Bosnia they have ghettos where they deal with work the general populace feels is below them - such as recycling. Ironically recycling business together with increase in metal prices over the world has made the Gypsy ghettos richer than their surrounding villages for now. They are still bullied though.

And I can tell you all those europeans shitting on Romas are aweful people. From my experiences with Roma in these Bosnian ghettos - they are loving and careing, fun people, the majority dont steal or beg or strive to pluck the eyes out of lone kids. Borat portrayal of Gypsies is how most Europeans see them. While they are just nice bullied people, for example I was pushing throught the ghetto with a flat tire on bike, they saw and immediatley sent for someone to find a pump and pumped it up for me, not accepting anything I had in return.

All of this is from personal experience.

rizlah

[communists] generally put a high emphasis on education, and I doubt they would have been fond of allowing ghettos or any sort of pseudo-segregation to exist

i think your view of the communist regime may be a bit idealized.

it probably was more of a result of incompetent management than racially motivated/determined politics, but during communism (note: in central europe) the romani were treated rather unscrupulously, often strongarmed into the mainstream culture and social patterns that were largely incompatible with their own.

it was during communism when some of the infamous ghettos took shape, again mostly due to insensitive or straight up nonexistent minority policies.

interestingly enough, this CAN be viewed as racial egalitarianism from the communists. and it was, kind of (in a crooked way really). the gypsies were forced to work like any other, go to schools like any other, be resettled like any other etc. but the results were usually destructive.

in the eyes of the current white majority though, the modern "western" approach to the romani problem is often perceived as bordering on reverse racism and ultimately as inefficient as the communist approach. it's then unfortunate but understandable that many people within the majority appear rather grumpy about the whole issue and take up the preconceived sentiment you've described ("the gypsies were good-for-nothing back then and are even worse now! at least the commies made them work, now they just live off the welfare!").

edit: http://www.collegetermpapers.com/TermPapers/Miscellaneous/gypsies_in_Czech_Republic.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_the_Czech_Republic http://www.migrationinformation.org/feature/display.cfm?ID=308

http://romove.radio.cz/cz/clanek/18785 (Czech, google translate)