/u/backgrinder stated that "Chariots have a major weakness: they can't turn. Not even a little bit, not in a short space while moving. They also require firm, dry flat ground to operate." in the Alexander thread. I was thinking of this in the context of the film, they seem to run circles around Maximus & co, and they are defeated with what looks like a shield wall. Would a shield wall help against the scythes? Or is that Hollywood just being entertaining?
I hope this qualifies as a good top comment.
It seemed very effective as a harassment weapon, highly mobile ranged weapon, but it seemed too risky / expensive (chariot, trained drivers, and well trained horses) to use it in close combat with a large mass of organized troops. Not saying you wouldn't use it against large masses of troops, you just would keep your distance while you reign down arrows on your opponents where you saw fit.
Gladiator seemed way too close, but it is also depicting something being done for entertainment even in the context of the movie so I'm not sure it needs to be accurate, or matters that it is inaccurate.
Of course chariots can turn - the Greeks never used chariots for war (at least not in the post-Homeric world), but they were used in the Olympic and other games in hippodromes - hippodromes being oval-shaped tracks. This is mentioned in Thucydides as Alcibiades boasts of his chariot teams winning him several placements.
There is a reference to chariot turning in The Iliad as well (Bk XXIII:448-498):
A different team’s ahead, it’s a new charioteer in the lead. Eumelus’ mares were in front on the outward leg, but they must have come to grief. I saw them galloping first towards the turning post, but there’s no sign of them now, though I’ve searched the whole Trojan plain. Perhaps the reins slipped from his hands, and he failed to take the turn? I think it’s there his chariot must have wrecked, and hurled him to the ground, while the mares swerved and bolted in their terror.
The Romans used them in races in the Circus Maximus which is basically a hippodrome, an oval track which requires turning.
In Bello Gallica the Britannic chariots are described as such:
by daily practice and exercise attain to such expertness that they are accustomed, even on a declining and steep place, to check their horses at full speed, and manage and turn them in an instant and run along the pole, and stand on the yoke, and thence betake themselves with the greatest celerity to their chariots again.
The Greeks and Romans didn't use chariots for combat; although there is an instance in Vegetius where it is claimed a chariot is used by Scipio Africanus to fight elephants. But the Britons were separated from the mainland culture, which had moved on to proper cavalry warfare, and they retained the chariot.
As for the scythed wheels, Darius III deployed scythed chariots against Alexander at Gaugamela. The Anabasis Alexandri claims 200 scythed chariots.
However Xenophon claims Cyrus the Great invented the concept of using the scythed chariot. From Cyropaedia:
On both sides of the wheels, moreover, he attached to the axles steel scythes about two cubits long and beneath the axles other scythes pointing down toward the ground; this was so arranged with the intention of hurling the chariots into the midst of the enemy. And as Cyrus constructed them at that time, such even to this day are the chariots in use in the king's dominions
Mithridates also apparently used them, according to Appian, with the chariots "cutting some of them in two, and tearing others to pieces" as they charged into the Roman lines.
A shield wall would certainly be effective granted you had disciplined troops. Horses are horses, and they will hesitate or refuse to charge a wall of spears. Apparently the thinking with the scythe, however, was not to charge a formation, but was equipped because the horses would not charge. The horses could still avoid the infantry directly while the scythe would cut into them.
However the tactic that seemed most effective at countering them was creating gaps in the line as the chariot approached, and then closing ranks on them while they were in the midst of the infantry - this is what Alexander did at Gaugamela to deal with the chariots.
The way chariot combat is depicted in Homer as well as by Caesar is different than the scythed method, though. There would be a driver/attendant and another warrior would have throwing-weapons he would discharge from the chariot, but the primary use would be as a method of transport.
The chariot would be driven to a spot in the battlefield and the warrior would get off the chariot and fight on foot. This is depicted a few times in the opening fight in The Iliad and is described by Caesar - being similar as well to how some Gallic cavalry would fight; getting off of their horses to actually fight and cutting at the bellies of the opposing horse.
Egyptians used them as a platform for archers.
So I'd say the depiction in Gladiator is pretty accurate.
[edited a couple mistakes out!]
I don't even know how to react to the 'they don't turn' comment. What? Is he saying that all the movie footage of chariots racing was somehow done with special effects, and wasn't real? I've seen chariots turning in circles all the time.
I think he means that they use a single axle which forces both wheels to turn at the same speed. I guess someone might have built chariots like this, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. They aren't driving wheels, there's no need to stop each wheel from freewheeling on it's own hub. The axle between them doesn't need to turn at all.
As for 'they require firm, dry ground to operate'... there is some truth to chariots being limited in terms of where they could be usefully deployed, but because they offered such an advantage over a conventional infantry or cavalry, it quickly became the case that all sides would always prefer to engage in open, level ground suitable for chariot use.
If a battle was unavoidably located somewhere unsuitable for chariots, that would be true for all sides anyway.
Their stability was perhaps more of a problem for getting to and from the site of battle, or for long trips to war. There would be lots of mountains and narrow passes to navigate. But that's why the Romans were so OCD about building roads. Chariots are far more nimble than carts and oxen, so even on long trips the complaint about them seems pointless.
The rear-axle on a standard sedan is also fixed. But the front axle (horse) does the turning, and the butt follows.