I've heard about the Isle of Lesbos, but in general, how did lesbian relationships work in Ancient Greece? Were they tolerated/heard of?

by Izzhov

What do we know about lesbianism in society in Ancient Greece?

QVCatullus

Lesbianism is addressed, at least in theory, in Plato's Symposium, and given the same credence as heterosexual or homosexual male love in Aristophanes' "soulmate" speech, but that shouldn't necessarily be construed to mean a wider level of acceptance.

Women in much of the Greek world were quite sheltered and not topics for public discussion -- it is common enough to know who the sons and brothers of an important man were, but not have any details about who the sisters, daughters, or even wife were. Consider Pericles in his funeral oration (Thucydides 2.45), in which he makes it clear that women are not to be talked about in proper Athenian society: "To a woman not to show more weakness than is natural to her sex is a great glory, and not to be talked about for good or for evil among men." There's simply not a lot of information about them because without any men in the picture, there isn't a lot for many of our primary sources to discuss. The poet Sappho (from Lesbos) was clearly homosexual/bisexual, as evidenced by her love poetry written to women, but almost all of the information we have about her life is from later (the myth of her committing suicide over unrequited love), even invented during the Victorian era to gloss over her sexuality (the myth of her finishing school for girls), and we hardly even have any coherent pieces of her poetry to work with. Still, she appears to have been in acceptable lesbian relationships.

Lastly, the Greek understanding of sexuality doesn't quite synch up with ours. The spectrum of homosexuality to heterosexuality is far less important to them than the concept of active or passive participation in sex, which is fundamentally about the penetrative act. Thus, in a homosexual relationship, the older male in the position of power is the penetrator, while it is more or less acceptable to an ancient Athenian for a younger man who is socially dependent on the elder to be the passive recipient. It has more to do with power dynamics than the modern conception (with a strong Judeo-Christian influence in the western world) of "gay vs. straight." Lesbianism is deeply confusing to this system, since neither woman possesses a penis, so the power dynamic is more confusing, rather than being "wrong" or not tolerated.

kreak210

I would like to start by saying I have no sources that answer this question directly, although we did spend a whole week on Greek sexuality in a Greek civilization class. Thus my sources are mainly lecture notes, Plato's Symposium, and possibly a few soundbites here and there.

To begin, it's important to understand the way Greek's saw sexuality (to be clear, this is a simplified explanation of Greek sexual relationships). They based it on the premise of who is the penetrator, and who is the penetratee. The penetrator is the one in the relationship who penetrates, be it with a woman, man, or boy. The penetratee is the one who receives the penetration. This too could be a man, boy, or woman.

In Plato's "Symposium", there is a famous male-male couple: Agathon and Pausanias. Now, to look at this relationship in a Greek manner, one must be the penetrator while the other must be the penetratee. In the work, however, it is not made clear who takes which role in the relationship, confusing many of the guests at the Symposium. Scholars believe this breakdown of sexual relationships lead to the (historically and culturally uncommon) acceptance of male-male lovers as well as male-boy lovers. See, it is acceptable as long as the relationship follows the penetrator-penetratee breakdown. Now we can see where female-female relationships fall.

Like many other cultures that accepted or glorified male-male relationships, female-female relationships were strictly taboo. The reason being no one could fulfill the penetrator role, only the penetratee. So these relationships made no sense. Now, as stated in the the title, there were famous instances of female-female sexual relationships. But they were not regarded as acceptable, but rather something that may happen in unique circumstances.

For example, in the play "The Bacchae", there is some light shed on the Cult of Bacchus (which is another name for Dionysus) known as The Bacchae. The Bacchae was a secret cult consisting of women who were devoted to praising Dionysus. They would do this every so often by going into the woods for extended periods of time, falling into fits of madness, and doing, pretty much, whatever. Being the god of ritual madness and ecstasy, it was understood that female-female sexual relationships may occur, but only under fits of madness.

In summation, yes lesbian sexual relationships were heard of. No, they were not always tolerated. As for the love behind these relationships, that is a whole other story. "The Symposium" itself gives several ways to interpret love, making this a more convoluted issue.

Srirachachacha

First of all, I'm not an expert. My degree is in psychology, but I've taken quite a few courses on ancient Greece (real historians are rolling their eyes right now).

My undergraduate University had a great class on comparing the ancient Greek democracy to the "modern" U.S. democratic government. This sounds off topic in regard to your question, but I believe government plays a large roll in the course of female sexuality in Greece (the development of the Greek polis changed the way that women were and could be treated, and thus altered the freedoms that they possessed both physically and mentally).


Anyway, I'll try to shed some light on your question, and cite sources where I can.

As you may know, Homosexual relationships were quite common in ancient Greece, especially between men, and most famously between men and boys, AKA pederasty,see also (some describe this as a sort of mentoring relationship but with sexual intercourse).

Most scholars (please correct me if I'm wrong) agree that the frequency and acceptance of homosexual relationships varied in ancient Greece based upon time period (this society existed for a long time) and local custom (the territory of Greece was pretty far-reaching at some points in history).

We should also note that ancient Greeks didn't really think of sexuality the same way that many modern societies do, with "orientation" being a sort of persistent trait that each person expresses. Instead, sex was sex, and the distinction which was made was mainly one of dominance^2; who was the penetrator, and who was the penetratee (I made those words up).

That being said, there were homosexual (or sapphic) relationships between women in ancient Greece. From what I've been taught and read, these female-female sexual relationships were more common early in Greece's history. Originally there existed communities called thiasoi, which were basically all-female organizations where women and girls could get a foundational education. Sapphic relationships were said to have been quite common in these communities, with female-mentors having sex with their female students, and students having sex with other students. As far as I know, in these early years, lesbian relationships were considered acceptable, but were rarely discussed in the society at large^2.

Supposedly, as Greece grew and become more structured both governmentally and culturally (and marriage/the legal implications that come with marriage became more prominent), women began to viewed and treated in a more dehumanizing manner. The thiasoi were pretty much eradicated (I wish I could give you dates for this stuff) and women were taught from an early age that their purpose in life was basically to be a good mother and a good husband. They were confined to their houses by the men that they married and were expected to remain faithful sexually. I believe it was around this time that sapphic relationships began to be less common, and less acceptable in the Greek culture^3.

Also, I believe Plato discusses women who aren't sexually attracted to men in Symposium.

^1 Martti Nissinen, Homoeroticism in the Biblical World: A Historical Perspective, (Augsburg Fortress, 1998), p. 57,

^2 Oxford Classical Dictionary, Entry on homosexuality, pp.720–723; David M. Halperin.

^3 Wikipedia entry <- Though it has few citations.