I would love to teach, but I would love to explore other things: archives, research, writing… I just need some perspective, and some honesty… is it worthwhile to get my PHD?

First of all, if you become a professor you will be doing all of these things. Essentially there are two parts of academia, the production of knowledge and the dissemination of knowledge and you will be doing both by being on the faculty of a history department.

I have no idea what the market is like in New Zealand, so I don't think I can really comment intelligently on what that will be like for you, but if it is anything like the United States then it will be tough going.

Also, if you don't eventually want to land in academia, or aren't sure you eventually want to end in academia you may want to consider just a masters. It will qualify you to do a lot of the non-academic work, you'll get to learn a lot and have your go at research by way of writing your master's thesis. Finally, depending on what you are doing right now and what your timeline is like, it may be possible to do a masters while continuing with your current job if you are willing to really devote yourself to it and take seminars in the evenings. You may want to look into Public History in terms of a career switch if you want to avoid the full phd.

Essentially, a phd in history very specifically qualifies you for work in academia, but isn't necessary for a lot of other history related jobs. So you end up doing a LOT of extra work and devoting a pretty big chunk of your life to prepare yourself mainly for one specific thing. If you aren't dead set on that one thing ( a faculty position in a history department somewhere) to the point where it borders on obsession you probably want to consider another route. However, if on the other hand you do really want that, then you should seriously consider it - despite the drawbacks.

Hi,

I would like to share my own, different perspective with you.

I live in Germany, so people here pursue PhDs even when they don't have the goal of working in academia. It's considered post-post-graduate education, for people who love their field and want to attain the absolute highest qualification in that field short of going into academia.

I say short of going into academia since to become a professor, one also must write a "habilitation", which is even longer, more rigorous and more seriously judged than the PhD. The "habilitation" is what leads directly to the academic career track.

Also, we don't pay tuition. I imagine it could be similar in New Zealand?

My legal work is satisfying, fascinating and socially enriching, in my opinion. I take great pride in my practice and what I am able to do for people. That said, my academic work is even more important to me.

When I spoke to my thesis advisors the first time, I informed them that I wanted to remain a part of the conversation in my field (in this case: 19th German language literature and comparative legal history). I did not want to go into academia. But having a PhD gives me a much, much better vantage point from which to publish academic articles while remaining, in effect, a non-academic, a legal professional in the free market.

You may want to pursue a PhD for similar reasons to me - for the satisfaction, and so you can remain part of a conversation. Work is great, but in the end, it's so awesome to be able to dedicate time and energy to thinking about abstract ideas. To be heard, to exchange thoughts with brilliant people, and to always learn about topics you find fascinating. That is all stuff the money can't buy (well, unless you're Bill Gates).

So, why be pragmatic?

Some people blow money on expensive cars, other people pursue PhDs. You can still get work when you're done. Whether or not it relates to your PhD or not is irrelevant; you'll still have the qualification.

Bear in mind also: with a PhD you could try to get a non-tenure/non-career part time position at the academy. My wife is doing this right now at a university in Germany, as she is also in a PhD program (while also not harboring any desire to permanently be part of the academy).

You seem like you are still young enough to do something you truly love. Don't squander the opportunity. How often do people get a chance to sit back, reflect on where they are, and make the decision of what step to take next based on something other than NECESSITY and the desire to survive? That is a privileged position you are in, and you should choose carefully.

Good luck with your choice. Bonne chance, bon courage, bon voyage. :)

Like the others, I can't comment on what it will be like to find a job in NZ specifically. However, I completed a PhD (in Classics, which is probably slightly less employable than history because a lot of people don't know what it is...) and I have actually found it has opened a lot more doors for me than you'd think.

Doing a PhD doesn't mean you're not working - I also taught in a school and at the university I studied at, got grants to organise conferences and did voluntary work to make sure my CV wasn't too research-only. Actually, I also did this so that I didn't go batshit mental from researching the whole time.

You develop a lot of very useful skills doing a PhD - the self-motivation, resilience, intellectual rigour, research methods and public speaking are all super helpful in lots of environments. It also gives you a sort of automatic credibility, which has so far often helped me to counteract both my gender and age to support me to progress pretty quickly in my career to date. I think the pace of thinking, ability to learn independently and assimilating knowledge have also helped me progress, since I usually get stuff pretty quickly once I take on a new project or role.

That said, up until about a year ago, I would have told you I regretted doing my PhD. I spent years broke, isolated and very, very stressed. I balanced multiple jobs with massive research workload, and struggled in a dry and hierarchical academic environment. You don't really have people there to say well done or recognise your hard work, so it can seem pretty unrewarding. I decided not to stay in academia, not because of the job market, but because I knew that I needed something with a bit more regular human interaction than research. It's only now that I can see how much going through this has helped me to navigate difficult work situations that I am glad I did it.

If you love the subject and are willing to keep an open mind about what comes next, and if you can secure some decent funding, there's no reason not to go for it. But it won't be easy.

So, I would like to join /r/wanderlustcub in his/her question.

I am doing now second year of MA. To be very precise, I am doing at this moment Erasmus in Germany, but my home uni is in Poland. I'd like to start PHD studies in Germany (preferably in the same place as I am now), however I have no idea about German job market for humanities PHDs. I am going to have on Tuesday talk with one professor about if he is going to be my PHD supervisor. My preferred topics are mostly about Weimar Republic (i.e SPD), Russia in 19th century (but I don't know Russian) and China between 1911-1949 (but I don't know Chinese). I am going to have German C1 certificate in June this year.

Should I go for PHD or is it better to forget about it and concentrate on getting job in Germany outside of academia?

You should consider the various history-related careers you've mentioned (archives, research, writing, etc). A PhD in history isn't necessarily going to translate to work in one of those areas.

For the majority of people, a PhD in history is intended to lead to teaching, usually at the university level. And while I don't know what the job market for history professors is in New Zealand, if it's a tough one, that's also something to consider.

Unless you're so invested specifically in the idea of teaching at the University level that you're willing to spend the next 5-6 years training to apply for jobs, with no guarantee that you'll get any of them, and unless you and your husband are willing to move to wherever it is that may offer you a job (which is the norm for academics), I don't think a PhD is really the route you want to go.

That said, there's plenty of history related fields that have better odds in the job market and don't require a PhD, though they may require some other specialized training. There's public history (which would call for some mixture of history and museum studies), archiving (there's a variety of routes for training in this one, but a history MA can be part of it), publishing, and so on. Getting a PhD in history will leave you both under qualified and over qualified for many of these jobs.

Consider your options and go talk to people in the field that do that job. Find out what the job market is like, what training these jobs require, and what a graduate in the field should expect. Then you can make a decision that fills your desire to do something history-related, but is also perhaps more practical and gives you a better opportunity of outcome.

One thing to bear in mind is that a P.H.D is really really hard, really stressful and will consume your like for 3 - 5 years (or more!)

I know 3 people who have embarked on a P.H.D (Girlfriend, friend and girlfriend of a cousin) and they all fucking hate it

might want to do some more research but you're on the list: http://skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/assets/uploads/long-term-skill-shortage-list-2013-06-21-.pdf

that will help your immigration points if that is at all an issue

I am a New Zealander, I have been an acedemic employed at multiple levels in New Zealand and Australia, and I have many friends working in non-University-related fields who have PhDs. If you are in Auckland that cuts down a few of the options, but PM me and we can chat about it if you like.

I'm rather late to this, but thought I'd save creating a new thread to bang on the same drums, so to speak.

I'm also a kiwi, majoring in history and German as a BA (entering my second year). my plan right now is to carry this through to honours, as well as the year at teaching college to gain the qualifications to teach both history and German at least, at a secondary level. HOWEVER, I'm also interested in the diplomatic service, and my real passion is something in the lines of practical or hands on history, being as I am heavily involved in a local museum and railway. In the long run I'm looking at basing myself in England and Europe. What sort of career paths might be out there for me? An example of what I would consider a dream job would be to curate/restore and run vehicles/etc. at an open air museum like Beamish in the north of England. But I've also been pondering about what a PhD would add to this, for any of these possibilities? Thanks!