AMA - Classical Archaeology

by Tiako

Classical antiquity is period of roughly a thousand years between the rise of the Greek polis and the collapse of the Roman Mediterranean system, and includes at different times the entire Mediterranean basin and beyond. There are a variety of ways to examine this period, and today this panel will discuss the archaeology, or the material remains, a category that includes the massive monumental temple at Baalbek and the carbonized seeds from an Italian farmhouse. Our panelists introduce themselves:

/u/pqvarus: I've specialized in Ancient Greek Archaeology, my geographic field of interest is Asia Minor (from the Archaic Period onwards) and as a result of my PhD project I'm focussing on the archaeology of ancient greek religion (especially cult practice) and material culture studies.

/u/Astrogator: I've just finished my MA at the department of Ancient History and Epigraphics (my BA was in History, Philosophy and Political Science), and my main interests are in provincial epigraphic cultures, especially the Danube region, and the display of dress on sepulchral monuments (and how both are tied to questions of Romanization and Identity).

/u/Tiako: I am an MA student studying the economy of the Early Imperial Period of the Roman Empire. My focus is on commerce, particularly Rome's maritime trade with India.

However, there is more to classical civilization than marble temples an the Aeneid, and there is more to the period than Greece and Rome. To provide a perspective from outside what is usually considered “classical” civilization, we have included three panelists from separate but closely intertwined fields of study. They are:

/u/Aerandir: I am archaeologist studying Iron Age communities. Currently I am working on a PhD on the fortifications of the first millennium AD in Denmark. Danish and Dutch material is what I am most familiar with.

/u/missingpuzzle: I have studied Hellenistic period Eastern Arabia, particularly specializing in settlement patterns and trade. I have also studied the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean trade from the Hellenistic and Early Roman periods.

/u/Daeres: Hi I'm Daeres, and I have an MA in Ancient History. My archaeological focus is on the Ancient Near East in the First Millenium BC, Bactria, and the Aegean, though I am primarily a historian rather than an archaeologist. I have an inordinate fondness for numismatics, and also epigraphy. But I especially concentrate on the archaeological evidence for Hellenistic era Bactria.

And so with knots cut and die cast, we await your questions.

bitparity

Can you describe what an "average" day on an archaeological dig would be like? Can you also describe what your average "off time" would be like during the dig? I'm really hoping you're all getting drunk, instead of just spending all your time with your notes.

I've always been curious about the logistics of how a dig actually works. Like how long a dig takes, how one is paid (or if one has to fund their part in the dig themselves), how one gets involved in a dig, etc.

chilari

In my reading I've come across abecedaria or other sequences of letters which did not form words written on potsherds and deposited at classical Greek santuary and shrine sites. How widespread was this practice and for how long did it continue?

white_light-king

I've heard people try to claim that environmental damage (usually deforestation) was a factor in Roman population declines in the west. How much archaeological evidence is actually available to show any environmental problems anywhere in the Mediterranean?

kajimeiko

Sorry if this is too vague, but:

What is the meaning of the "Archaic smile?"

Also, why in classical sculpture was the genitals of men mostly portrayed in a diminutive way?

(in caricature and vase painting I have seen the opposite but in what I see as the "high art" mode of classical sculpture, undersized genitals seem to be more aesthetically appealing)

Mictlantecuhtli
  1. Why is Cyprus so overlooked?

  2. How much merit does the legend that 8 of the 10 Iron Age kingdoms on Cyprus were founded by Greeks coming back from the Trojan War (the other two being native Cypriot and Phoenician)?

  3. Why was the icon for Aphrodite a big black rock? Did icons for other gods also include amorphous rocks? Did other gods have supposed birthplaces around the Mediterranean like Aphrodite has Paphos?

  4. What was the largest vessel built in the Classic period? How many crewmen did it take to operate?

  5. Is it true that the Phoenicians had a trade route all the way up to England to acquire tin? If so, what's the evidence for this?

  6. How do you feel about using illegally salvaged Roman lead ingots for use in dark matter detectors?

Kalros

Have you ever been in a situation that required you to yell "It belongs in a museum!"?

caffarelli

For /u/Daeres: So it seems like a lot of our archaeological discoveries about Bactria are pretty recent (like 90s and later) - so how much more do you think is out there to be discovered about this society?

tbirdtj

What are your opinions on reconstructions of classical sites? Meaning, what do you think is the ideal balance of leaving something in ruins vs. restoring it to what it would have originally looked like? I don't even know how I feel about it myself. Some examples I think of are the temple of Artemis at Ephesus where you have one single column standing and nothing else. Then the Parthenon is kind of a mix of original and reconstructions. Then you go to the Palace of Knossos and entire rooms/structures have been rebuilt and painted.

MrIvysaur

Is it possible to guess how much there is that still hasn't been found? Like, what are the odds that archaeologists find a lost Greek play or a collection of letters from Augustan Rome?

Inscriptions, coins, and artifacts are obviously still out there, but what about the stuff more prone to decomposing?

WorldOneWon

This is probably geared more towards /u/pqvarus, but how badly did Schliemann fuck up the excavations at Troy, if at all?

I vaguely remember reading that he was so fixed on finding Homer's Troy (and believing he did find it with Troy II) that he basically ruined other areas searching for it.

terminus_trantor

I have a question regarding trade and production in the Roman times, so i guess its mostly to /u/Tiako.

Well the question is did the Romans produce things such as tools, clothes, everyday items; and then trade them either inside their Empire or also abroad?

As far as the few books I read on the Romans concered, I understood that their production was mostly local-based and most things traded were resources and materials like grain and food, wine, ore, gold etc. and little actual "products"

I am trying to see if there is difference or paralel with Medival times where, as I see it, trade of products was very common and where for example textile trade of both resources and final products was wide and developed. (But if my understanding of nature of Medival trade of products is wrong feel free to correct me)

lobsterrollz

What were the Jewish communities in the Roman Empire outside of Judaea like? How did they practice their religion away from the Temple? Did they live among other Jews or mingle with other ethnicities? I've become more interested since reading about the genetic history of Ashkenazi Jews in a NY Times article recently.

Theoroshia

I've heard that nothing remains of the ancient Spartan royal buildings. Is this true, and if so why?

ForeverAclone95

What is best for archaeological remains, conservation on site or removal a la the Pergamon Museum?

parkeea

As classical archaeologists, how do you view relationships with archaeologists who work in other world areas, especially the New World? Classical archaeology is often incorporated into classics departments as opposed to departments of anthropology. Do any of you feel that this hampers scholarship, and, if so, what can archaeologists working on both sides of the aisle do to improve communication?

I ask this as Mayanist who has had very few interactions with classical archaeologists. American archaeology is already extremely insular (perhaps incestuous?) and Maya archaeology even more so.

Puzzleweilder

Hello there awesome Archaeologists!

My employer is a fervent believer in Afrocentrism, specifically that Greek and Roman civilization is "stolen" from Egyptian and deep African roots. According to him, the evidence is quite plain; "The artifacts that have been recovered are plain to see- it's obvious" that African civilization has been eternally shorted by European and Asian civilization, despite the former being older, more technologically advanced, more culturally developed, and just... well... overall better.

Now, as a philosophy major, I studied a lot of Ancient Greek writings, but nothing has convinced me that Afrocentrism is anything more than a conspiracy theory- I'm also relatively certain that putting modern conceptions of race in the Classical Era is quite impossible- but I am no expert on "the artifacts" (whatever he means).

My question, then, is this: Are there any classical artifacts that support the claim that the great achievements of Greek or Roman civilization were stolen from African sources?

I apologize if this question is beyond your area(s) of expertise, but it is something that has been on the mind lately, and the chance that you might know warrants a stab in the proverbial dark. :) Thank you for your time.

TiberiusRedditus

I've heard it said that the main time period for trade between Rome and India was between the 1st century CE and the 2nd or maybe 3rd century. Is this true? Or was the period of interaction longer than this?

Also, what are some good sources for the interaction between the Greco-Roman world and India?

Edit: I meant to note that this question is mainly for /u/Tiako and /u/Aerandir, since this is their area of specialty.

Jasfss

With the decline and fall of Rome in Europe (the Western empire) to what extent were pieces of Roman architecture reused? Were there major attempts at maintaining current buildings, were buildings instead stripped down for materials and repurposed locally (or just wholly destroyed to make room?), or were materials stripped and moved to other areas for building?

Sorry if this is a bit broad or unclear, but with the amount of infrastructure and architecture created by the Romans, I've wondered where large portions went (aside from some of the remnants that actually survive today).

DoubleFried

I know that Greeks used to vote using shards, but where did these come from? Did every voting citizen just smash a pot to vote, where there places one could obtain shards or maybe something else?

highshelfofsteam

This is probably more for /u/pqvarus and maybe /u/Daeres, as I'm primarily interested in ancient Greece. It's pretty easy to find a book or a documentary that will teach me about ancient Greek history--the big events that changed history, the wars, the evolution of democracy, etc. I can also find books about mythology and go in depth on that. What is much harder, though, is for me to find anything about how any of this impacted the regular citizens and what their daily life was like.

What was the day in the life of a slave like? The lower, middle, and upper classes? What did they do to fill their time? When did they eat meals, and who did they eat them with? What time did they wake up to start their days? Did they pray to or worship or talk about their deities in any way in everyday life, or was that mostly reserved for big festivals?

I'm guessing that maybe from an archeological standpoint you have a better grasp on this, since from my (admittedly shallow) understanding of archeology, you might focus more on how a certain type of pot was used or other items you discover rather and see more of the artifacts of daily living rather than focusing on the sweeping panoramas of history.

I don't expect you to answer all of these questions. But if you could at least point me in the right direction on how to understand their day-to-day life more, that would be fantastic.

Thank you for your help!!

Stoneinatincan

Given the quickly increasing speed of advancements in technology, what do you think about the idea that modern archaeologists are irresponsibly destroying historical artifacts and sites for the sake of gaining fame/money on mostly guesswork - sites and artifacts that could soon (50-100 years) be mapped and analyzed with 100% certainty and none of the destruction of modern practices?

abcx10

What do you guys think about total war rome 1&2?

Have Any of you guys have interest in south east asian history or have been in asian digs?

exemplarypotato

to /u/pqvarus I am a Turkish citizen and I saw that your field of interest was Asia Minor. That's Anatolia right? Other than famous cities such as Ephesus and Troy, I haven't really gone to many ancient sites in Turkey. Where do you suggest I visit? What is an interesting historical spot to go to in this winter break?

HatMaster12

I've heard that by the time of Late Antiquity, the material culture of the Roman world was almost entirely Roman. If you'll pardon what seems like a relatively dumb question, what exactly is meant by this?

[deleted]

How many people died annually in the Colosseum? Gladiatorial matches at large? What was the scale and cultural framing of human sacrifice among the Romans and the Greeks?

hockeyrugby

thank you all for stopping by!!!! Can anyone explain to me Hadrians Wall? What was its purpose? What was its height? I came across a documentary via reddit saying it was 15 feet high coast to coast, but also met a pretty awesome academic that would say it was generally maybe 4 feet high. Obviously these discrepancies change things. So ideas on what the wall was used for? I like to imagine a tax checkpoint...

narwhal_

I've wondered several times over the last several years if I would enjoy just doing straight archaeology more than what I'm doing now. What is the normal training/professional degree requirements to become a classical archaeologist? Can you give an overview of the skills learned and coursework?

I have a Master's in New Testament and Early Christianity (i.e. History of the Ancient Mediterranean with an emphasis on religion) from Harvard, know all the relevant ancient and modern languages, and am obviously familiar with the historical circumstances in the Greco-Roman world. How hard would it be to transition from an ancient history degree, to a classical archaeology program? Would one need to start at the master's level, or would jumping right into a PhD be possible?

redeyeraptor

Generally, we associate technological progress with progression in time. How much did military technology actually advance in classical antiquity?

For example, say we took a Greek and and Roman force of equal size from the time at which each civilization was at its peak, equipped with their best gear. Would the Romans, who peaked much later than the Greeks, actually have a significant advantage over the earlier Greek force?

Also, to the untrained eye, the classical weapons technology all looks very similar. I would assume there were advances in materials, but it all appears to be slight variations of metal swords and shields to me. However, I find it obvious that a WWI era army wouldn't stand a chance against a WWII era army from only 30 years later. The heavy armour, air power, and automatic weapons of WWII look very different from what was around during WWI.

For scale, how would classical age matchups compare to a gunpowder/medieval age, pre/post flight, pre/post nuclear, etc. matchups? Were there any comparable jumps in tech in antiquity, in which short time periods like 30 years could make the difference between a fair fight and total annihilation?

redundanteater

Another question: how invasive are concerns about offending religious people? I'm thinking here about the archaeology of Iron Age I in Judah and Israel, where entire mythologies followed by billions of people are more or less empirically false (e.g. the absence of any evidence for an Exodus, the population, borders and importance of King David's Judah, and so on).

Hankhank1

Broad questions, I know, but I'm interested.

What has classical archeology revealed about the world of antiquity that written sources never touch on? Besides, perhaps the obvious.

What are the known unknowns that archeology may perhaps reveal about the world of antiquity?

Thank you.

Dhanvantari

Why were merchants looked down upon? Further, how was Grecian culture still so influential on the Mediterranean if it didn't have trade or empire to spread it?

Bakuraptor

How far can continuity be observed in the city structure of Roman civilisation in Western Europe (particularly Gaul and Goth-occupied Spain) in the fifth and sixth centuries? I'd be interested to know how far we can consider the various 'Barbarian' successors to Rome as maintaining (previously) Roman lifestyles from archaeological evidence.

ImUsingDaForce

Im writing this on my phone so sorry for the lack of editing. I am curently studying archaeology in Croatia, where we are focusing on Mediterranean area. What are some things i should keep an eye out for in my future studies? How important really are egaean civilizations from the bronze age? I will ask some more questions when i come home, please dont go anywhere. :)

Whalermouse

How did Indo-Roman trade play a role in the spread of early Christianity? Did the apostle Thomas really travel to Kerala and establish an early Christian community there?

redundanteater

How consistent is the boundary between Late Bronze II and Iron I? Is it noticeably different in Northern Europe compared to the Levant?

an_ironic_username

Hey there panel!

My own personal reading and research into ancient navies has inevitably lead to reading quite a bit about triremes, arguably the symbol of Classical sea power. Zosimus (and I believe Vegetius) make references to the ships, but also make clear that their design was lost long before they were writing. It's pretty amazing to me that the methods of designing one of the most widespread warship in the ancient Mediterranean were somehow lost to history, do we know why this is? Were building methods never "standardized" and recorded?

Also, /u/Tiako, not a question, just wanted to mention that the maritime history book I'm reading, The Sea and Civilization, has a pretty substantial section devoted to Roman trade and Byzantine-Sassanian economic rivalry in the Indian Ocean. It's pretty fascinating, keep up the good work!

doctorwhodds

I've read recently (meaning in the past week) of studies looking at pollen to determine that drought may be the cause of the Bronze Age Collapse. Any negatives to this research? Any closer to the identities of the "Sea People"?

past_is_prologue

How do you all feel about Heinrich Schliemann and others of his ilk?

Good, bad, otherwise?

flaminx0r

The Seleucid empire is never much discussed (although I am by no means anywhere near a scholar, just intrigued by history). I understand it was built on the fallout of Alexander's empire but my question is; have there been any major archaeological finds which show development away from this foundation? Did they find their own identity or something that sets them apart from other civilisations at the same time?

Many thanks!

crow6671

While living in Rome in 2006 there was an excavation in the Forum Nervae which found the original floor of the forum. This was pretty much all we were told. Do any of you guys have any more information on this?

Also, how many new discoveries such as this one occur in Rome? I'd think the excavations have been going on for so long that a good majority of large discoveries as such would already be found.

atthecoast
  • What are some of the major finds or discoveries in recent (10-15) years?

  • What are your present "el dorado"-type locations you are still looking for?

  • Atlantis?

fizzyspells

For the Greek specialists:

What do we know about the Eleusinian mysteries? Obviously they're called that for a reason — but I've heard we have some sources for the cult acts. How much do we know, and if there are sources, how credible are they?

Also, this is more opinion/current, but just wondering what you think about the drama with the Parthenon Frieze and if you think the remaining panels should be returned to Athens or kept in Britain?

HoHoRaS

What is the relationship between Mycenae and Argos?

Tealwisp

What can you tell me about wax tablets? How deep was the wax used on them? How well documented is the wax cursive? Bischoff published an old cursive alphabet, but it's missing C, H, I, N, T, and V. I don't know if it's because the letters weren't yet in common use in latin speaking areas, but letters taken from greek aren't included, either.

Aclem221

In Herodotus there's a section where he talks about a Persian marriage custom thingy. Basically, he says girls are forced to go into a temple until a man picks them for sex. She must then accept the silver he offers and have sex, then can go home. However, if your ugly you may be there awhile. Any of you know more about this custom Herodotus describes?

MysteryThrill

What is the current theory regarding the fall of the Minoans?

GuyWhoHikes

Where, exactly, is Thule?

RdClZn

How are the economies (GDP, goods production, mineral extraction, etc) of classical civilizations estimated? Any good sources for the most recent economical estimates of the Roman Empire?

corpsmoderne

What do we know from archaeology about the Roman's practice of crucifixion?

Roland212

Does the material (soil, sand, peat, gravel, etc.) that an artifact is buried in greatly affect the method of retrieving it? If so, is one material particularly troublesome?

Phaistos

I was recently reading Alan Sorrell's 'Roman Towns in Britain' and I noticed in a number of his illustrations how low the bridges are that the Romans built. So my question is, how high were Roman bridges? and, especially over rivers like the Thames or the Rhine, that were major trade arteries, were they high enough to allow masted ships to pass under them? how did they get around this problem?

kokkomo

What was the attitude of ancient Rome towards the Lugii? Did they give up on conquering them, or did they find them easy to control through financial means?

reason for question: A few years ago a good professor gave me a challenge, "why did Poland not participate in the European spring during the 19th century?" I was able to answer the question with contextual evidence (Metternich stirring up the people against the nobility). During my research though, I read somewhere that even the Romans could not subjugate the area.

My apologies for grammatical errors!

roshampo13

So about 7 years ago when I was in high-school I took a cruise around the eastern Mediterranean with my family and visited ancient Ephesus during that time. While on my visit there, I found a piece of a column lying on the ground and took it home (as in all the way back to the USA) with me in my backpack. What sort of piece of antiquity am I holding on to now? Should I try to donate it somewhere or just keep using it as a conversation piece?

Not sure if this is really /r/AskHistorians material, but I've always been curious about it. I've always loved having that piece of history on my desk. I can post a picture if it would help at all, and I remember about exactly where I found it too.