How effective were air gunners as a defence against fighters?

by loudribs

From what little I've come across I've always been left with the feeling that gunners on WWII bombers weren't massively effective. Does anyone know much about this area?

iratesquirrel

Earlier bomber types were thought to be fast enough to outrun fighters but fighter design quickly caught up to them leaving them with inadequate defensive ability.

For allied heavy bombers they were more effective in the "combat box" formation where the guns of other bombers could cover the defensive holes in others. Although not a historical source the wikipedia article on the B17 has some useful info.