Hi everyone, is there a real quotation like this / is this a real story, and does anyone remember the specifics, origin, historical source of this story?
So goes the general arc of the tale, from my fuzzy memory (while studying Latin?), so please correct any parts that are wrong -- I recall a story about a general who conquered a city with his army, which was loyal to him, during antiquity (Greek? Roman?) and one of the local politicians (ruler, even?) was not having any of these actions, despite this general having completely and totally conquered the city, and the general's army being unquestionably loyal.
The politician and general had a verbal exchange that implied that the politician could not understand that even though this conquering general's power may not be moral or legitimate, that it may even be a moral outrage to the politician, the general's power was still unquestionably enforceable.
This general is said to have made a semi-famous expression of exasperation, sometimes quoted in political science. I believe it was something to the effect of, "But I control the armies!" or something similar -- a short, simple expression of the idea that even if his power over the city was in some abstract way illegal, immoral, or illegitimate, it was unmistakably enforceable.
Does anyone remember the original quotation, or the specifics and historical veracity of this story? Thanks a bunch.
EDIT: Thanks to Alot_Hunter and ScipioAsina. The story you're both describing is definitely the one I'm thinking of:
Alot_Hunter says:
I'm fairly certain you're referring to a story from the career of Pompey the Great, who lived more than 1,000 years after the end of the Bronze Age (the Bronze Age ended c. 1100 BC, Pompey died in 48 BC). As for the circumstances, it took place during the second civil war between Gaius Marius and Lucius Cornelius Sulla (83-80 BC). Pompey served under Sulla's command and was tasked with driving Marian forces out of Sicily, which he successfully did. When he reached the Sicilian city of Messana, the local administrators refused to recognize his authority on the grounds that they were protected by an ancient Roman Law. Pompey responded by saying, "Stop quoting laws at us. We carry swords," showing that the rule of law was useless in the face of rule enforced by an army.
ScipioAsina:
A vaguely similar story appears in Plutarch's biography of Pompey the Great (Gn. Pompeius Magnus): ...[M.] Perpenna [Vento] immediately abandoned Sicily to him [Pompey], and he [Pompey] retook its cities, which had been abused [by Perpenna], and treated them all benevolently except for the Mamertines in Messana, who pleaded against his tribunal and jurisdiction on account of an ancient law of the Romans. He said in response: "Will you not stop mentioning laws to us who are girded with swords?" (10.2) The Penguin edition gives a more elegant translation of Pompey's reply (οὐ παύσεσθε ἡμῖν ὑπεζωσμένοις ξίφη νόμους ἀναγινώσκοντες;): "Stop quoting the laws to us. We carry swords."
Now, I'm not sure if this is the story you had in mind, since there's very little context to it; Plutarch says nothing more about incident. But it seems unlikely that these were same Mamertines from the time of the First Punic War. I hope you find this helpful! :)
A vaguely similar story appears in Plutarch's biography of Pompey the Great (Gn. Pompeius Magnus):
...[M.] Perpenna [Vento] immediately abandoned Sicily to him [Pompey], and he [Pompey] retook its cities, which had been abused [by Perpenna], and treated them all benevolently except for the Mamertines in Messana, who pleaded against his tribunal and jurisdiction on account of an ancient law of the Romans. He said in response: "Will you not stop mentioning laws to us who are girded with swords?" (10.2)
The Penguin edition gives a more elegant translation of Pompey's reply (οὐ παύσεσθε ἡμῖν ὑπεζωσμένοις ξίφη νόμους ἀναγινώσκοντες;): "Stop quoting the laws to us. We carry swords." Now, I'm not sure if this is the story you had in mind, since there's very little context to it; Plutarch says nothing more about incident. But it seems unlikely that these were same Mamertines from the time of the First Punic War. I hope you find this helpful! :)
I'm fairly certain you're referring to a story from the career of Pompey the Great, who lived more than 1,000 years after the end of the Bronze Age (the Bronze Age ended c. 1100 BC, Pompey died in 48 BC).
As for the circumstances, it took place during the second civil war between Gaius Marius and Lucius Cornelius Sulla (83-80 BC). Pompey served under Sulla's command and was tasked with driving Marian forces out of Sicily, which he successfully did. When he reached the Sicilian city of Messana, the local administrators refused to recognize his authority on the grounds that they were protected by an ancient Roman Law. Pompey responded by saying, "Stop quoting laws at us. We carry swords," showing that the rule of law was useless in the face of rule enforced by an army.
Source: Plutarch, Life of Pompey 10.1
Thanks to both of you. That's definitely the story I'm thinking of.