China's relationship with its neighbours

by BigBadSaint

Hello all,

I'm interested in learning a bit more about how China's neighbours have historically interacted with their much larger neighbour (especially Tibet pre-invasion).

How immune were these neighbours to Chinese political and cultural mores? How successfully did they avoid tributary status, if they avoided it at at all?

Any book recommendations in this area would be most welcome!

ulvok_coven

Tibet rarely interacted with 'China.' China's nationstate is very much a modern consideration, whereas the region which it contains was quite frequently a military/ethnic/political morass. Which makes it a great deal of fun.

I know that Tibet interacted with the Tang, but I really don't know a thing about the Tang.

This had some interesting commentary on the Yuan administration of Tibet. I know you wanted pre-invasion Tibet, but I thought this would be of interest to you. The Mongol hybridization engine is at work here, dominating local political structures absolutely by abusing local talents. The Buddhist clerical institution maneuvered itself into a top-level position amongst the Mongols, creating a weapon of compliance against the Buddhists from the Yuan position, but also against the Buddhists from a lamaist position. Effectively, the Yuan offered to outsource their violence, and in doing so, created a relationship where both parties got what they wanted from the arrangement.

As Norbu writes (140) the Yuan set the example for how to handle Tibet - allegiance with the lamas and not dominance. I think this speaks to your question well. While the Chinese had absolutely the balance of force, they didn't have an ounce of political power in Tibet. Local cultural authority was maintained in Tibet for centuries.

The book is quite interesting, although this isn't my field of any particular expertise, so I can't speak to possible inaccuracies.

WhenTheRvlutionComes

Hello all,

I'm interested in learning a bit more about how China's neighbours have historically interacted with their much larger neighbour (especially Tibet pre-invasion).

You mean the 763 AD invasion of China by Tibet? Tibet briefly rose to challenge China militarily during the Tang dynasty, but soon fragmented and never returned to their former glory. They eventually became integrated into the Yuan and eventually Qing dynasties. When China fell apart in the warlord era, they tried to seize the opportunity to break off, but they only got so much international recognition and once China was unified again they didn't have much of a chance.

How immune were these neighbours to Chinese political and cultural mores?

Chinese cultural influence was pervasive in the countries that surrounded them - although the fellow sedentary, agriculture civilizations of Japan, Vietnam, and Korea tended to borrow more heavily than the nomads and herders of the western mountains and northern plains.

How successfully did they avoid tributary status, if they avoided it at at all?

The tribute system was the manner in which the Chinese emperors conducted diplomacy. Foreign rulers would visit the Chinese emperor and give him lavish gifts and exaggerated praise - otherwise, he wouldn't talk to you, and therefore you'd have no trade with China. Japan never subscribed to it - but they could pretty much do whatever they wanted, safe over on their island, and the Shogunate was pursuing isolationism in that period anyway and had no interest in trade with anyone. It did make the poor Ryuku a dual Chinese-Japanese vassal, and attempted to conquer Korea during a brief break from isolationism, but that was about it. Virtually every other Chinese neighbor chose to subscribe, however, because of the obvious benefits of trade and peaceful relations, besides the occasional neighbor who could conquer it (Mongolia and the Manchus). In the late Qing dynasty China was seriously weakened and could no longer demand such prestige, though. The Empire of Vietnam, throughout the 19th century, even went as far as to break away establish their own tribute system, and the hapless late Qing couldn't hope to do anything about it. By this point in time, though, funny men in boats with strong guns started coming around talking about some "Treaty of Westphalia", "free trade", and other barbarian gibberish, but they won out because of said strong guns and the tribute system was pretty much over. These were people who didn't want to kowtow to China. Inconceivably, they didn't even want to become it. No, they wanted to carve it up, a nice Guangzhou to go with their India.

Any book recommendations in this area would be most welcome!

Hmmm, I'd suggest you look into the Chinese history section in the faq here, you'll also get a portrait of their neighbors.