Two hundred years ago, the world changed. The dream of Napoleonic France ended in one of the most famous battles in world history. Today, Waterloo is synonymous with a major defeat; referenced even in popular culture to this day (such as ABBA’s well known song and Mad Men). So, on this day of days, we will be holding an AMA on the events leading up to the battle, the battle itself, and it’s consequences; so please ask questions concerning anything from the Abdication of Napoleon till the surrender of France in November.
Here today to talk about the events are:
/u/elos_ : I study France and Germany through the modern era. I'll be discussing mainly nationalist thought and how it was born throughout this period, notably in the two major "schools" of nationalism, French and German! Any short or long term consequences of these wars on either region I'm confident to answer.
/u/Sid_Burn : I can talk about the armies involved in Waterloo, how they got there, as well as general military/politic questions pertaining to the battle, its aftermath/build up etc. My specific focus is Germany's contributions but I can answer for all participants.
/u/BritainOpPlsNerf : General focus on the campaigns of Napoleon and more focused on cavalry usage from the Early Modern to the contemporary equivalent.
/u/DonaldFDraper : My focus is on the history of France from 1648-1815 as well as the military theory of the time period with a minor focus on general European history in the same time period.
On later today, we will have
/u/vonstroheims_monocle who’s focus is on the British army during this time period. (Note, he will be around at 5 PDT or so)
/u/Talleyrayand agreed to be here for the AMA but said that they might be busy.
The grand dream of Napoleonic France ends here at Waterloo. While the players were quick to downplay Napoleon, it would live on throughout history. The dream passes but it is remembered.
Edited for formatting
I'd like to repeat a question that I posted to Ask Historians earlier today.
Was there much celebration of Waterloo's centennial in 1915? One would think that the British and the Germans, if not the French, would want to capitalize on such an historic occasion.
What was the allies' plan B in case Wellington and Blücher could not link up, or worse they were both defeated?
What happened to Napoleon's wounded low rank soldiers, both those physically wounded and mentally scarred? Did they form an identifiable group as U.S. veterans of WW2 and Vietnam? How did successive governments of France view them?
How significant was the Prussian contribution to the battle? It's my understanding that the majority of it was fought by the British alone, would they have eventually won without the reinforcements?
And on that note, is it true that the Duke of Wellington exclaimed "I wish it were night or the Prussians came"?
Not really specific to Waterloo, but maybe you can answer, since it deals with the period: What do you think of David Bell's The First Total War? I flew through it once, years ago in a seminar, and I've started rereading it. I'm only through the intro, but the argument is a little more nuanced than just "French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars were the first 'total' wars." It's also about how the cultural meaning of war was shifting. Enemies became existential threats, not just honorable (aristocratic, professional) opponents on the battlefield. This helped redefine "war" as a state outside the normal "peace," and "military" and fully distinct from "civilian." I'm not far enough to see what kind of evidence he's using, though.
Did Napoleon really have a chance at winning against the main Coalition force if he managed to beat Wellington and Blucher, or was the Belgium campaign really just a hail mary by a beaten emperor who would be beaten again?
Yo guys. Well done on another storming AMA. I saw this one a couple of weeks ago and was tempted to stick my oar in but you've got it all covered!
A couple of questions that I'm interested to hear a different spin or take on though:
(Not necessarily specific to the Waterloo campaign) How were the lives of the ordinary rank and file of the respective armies? Their social background, life on campaign and opportunities for promotion. If anyone can offer a view on the armies not represented at the battle, such as the Russians and Austrians I'd be grateful.
At Quatre Bras the Allied army managed to halt the advance of the French, albeit with not insignificant losses. What, exactly, were Napoleon's plans should he have succeeded in driving both the Prussians at Ligny and the Allies at Quatre Bras back on the 16th June?
As little as 35% of Wellington's army was British and yet the myth that Waterloo was a British victory persisted mostly thanks to British Victorian nationalism. How was the battle and it's aftermath seen from other countries represented on the day?
(Bonus question as I'm a Scot myself!)As with most British armies of the day the Scottish contingent was overrepresented compared with its population. At this time "Scottish" and anything relating to Scotland was somewhat taboo with the "Scots Greys" being correctly termed the "North British Dragoons". How did this victory cement a feeling of British identity north of the border?
To what extent did the actions of the French and British cavalry influence the outcome of the battle? Were the cavalry an important factor at Waterloo or not at all?
I'm a big military history buff and have probably read into the Napoleonic Wars more than any other.
My question is simple: what great books (fiction and nonfiction) are out there that I should read?
The books that I have and/or read:
And my favorite series of all time:
Hey guys, just a PSA: I'm not ignoring the cavalry questions, simply saving them for later. I'm mobile at present and want to give full, detailed responses. I simply cannot at the moment. Thanks, and great questions :)
Edit: Beer in hand and time to kill, I'll be slowly going through the relevant questions now, thanks for waiting.
How did Napoleons illness and absence influence the course of the battle?
Can somebody please explain how Napoleon spread 'revolutionary ideals'? From what I understand of the French revolution france had glorious revolution killed a bunch of people and then Napoleon came in and took power seemingly (from what I understand) completely undoing everything the revolution did....And everything was fine with that? I mean he restored the monarchy under him but in his conquests the French people (and the people he conquered) were influenced with liberal sentiments....by another monarch? Anyone explain how this happened exactly or do I just not understand the revolution at all?
EDIT: Wait I don't think this directly relates to waterloo. If it doesn't the mods will probably delete it but just keeping it here in case they think it should be deleted or not. Oops.
Perhaps you guys could clear something up for me. Some time ago, I observed two Dutch military historians argue over whether or not Waterloo could be called "the largest battle ever fought on Dutch soil". One historian was arguing that since the Congress of Vienna had finished a few days prior, the United Kingdom of the Netherlands was a thing and thus it was Dutch soil. The other argued that things weren't official until the Treaty of Paris of 1815.
Can you explain to me what the exact relation between the Congress of Vienna and the Treaty of Paris of 1815 is?
Would you say that Waterloo was fought on Dutch soil?
Another broad topic, but with a more Waterloo-specific question: Concerning dispatches and orders of the time period.
As Napoloen was engaging Blucher at Ligny and Ney engaging the Anglo-Dutch army at Quatre Bas, D'Erlon's corps was busy marching between the two battles. How excusable was he for his mistake?
I haven't found a book with full transcripts of Napoleon's orders, but the bits I have read make it seem a bit vague. Ney should have already thrown the British out of Quatre Bas, but requested reinforcements from the I Corps which if it had been with Napoleon, could have easily ended the Prussians at Ligny.
Then there was the whole mess of Grouchy shadowing the Prussians during the actual battle of Waterloo and not being able to block them from joining the British. Were Napoleon's orders just not specific enough?
What is Napoleon's war plan after his return prior of this battle? Did he believe he has a chance to win against the 7th Coalition? What sort of terms would he seeks should he wins?
How important was Wellington in the battle? Was it a battle that any general could have won in his position or was he invaluable?
I live about 10 km from Waterloo. Outside of the memorial itself, what are some sites/buildings used by the troops and commanders that I could still visit today?
What was the average age of an ordinary soldier in Waterloo, for any army (but especially the British army)? What was the average soldier anyway? Rich, poor, from army backgrounds, etc? Seeing the reenactors dressed up as these soldiers who'd died and had families and suffered, I'd like to know a bit more about them. Apologies for the bad English.
A question that just came up, I know that Charles Oman and a bunch of other English historians proposed the "line versus column" picture of British troops in a musket line defeating French attack columns, something that has been taken up in, among other places, Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe series (some of my favorite historical fiction ever).
However, I also recall hearing that this is disputed by modern historians. What is the current take on the line vs. column theory? I hope this is relevant because a lot of narratives cite this with the allied successes at Waterloo, e.g. defeating the Guard, defending the ridge, etc.
Seeing as Napoleon spent quite a while languishing on St Helena after 1815, did he produce much by way of self-analysis regarding his defeat at Waterloo?
Indeed, even more generally, what did he get up to on St Helena, and did he comment on his past?
Hello, first time poster here =) Why is it that Waterloo is so strongly praised, although the "Völkerschlacht von Leipzig" was much more important for the fall of Napoleon (as far as I remember from high school)? Is it because it was the last battle of the napolean area? Or that he was defeated for the final time? Or simple due to britsh "marketing"?
Is there a specific reason it's only called "Battle of Waterloo"? In Prussia, it was a long time called the Schlacht von Belle-Alliance, Battle of Belle-Alliance, named after Napoleons headquarters, which for me always seemed like a very fitting name, considering that Waterloo was a bit away from the battlefield. Berlin had a Belle-Alliance-Platz and a Belle-Alliance-Straße. I've heard the explanation that Wellington found it ungentlemanlike to name the battle after the loser's HQ, was that a common thing?
Also, I am interested in the artillery technology and tactics during this last phase of Napoleonic War. How the guns were used during this war? What had changed for both sides since the beginning of the War, and what new innovations we can observed during the Battle of Waterloo?
What are your favorite fictional depictions of Waterloo in books, TV and film? Why?
How experienced were the individual French cavalry soldiers at Waterloo in comparison to their coalition counterparts?
Apologies to all: I've been globetrotting and only have sporadic access to the Internet, but I'll try and answer as many questions as I can!
Was Wellington a very competent general or was he just lucky, and what was the contribution of the Dutch/Low countries' armies?
i read this article from smithsonian. i would like to hear another historians perspective, do you believe that Europe benefited from Napoleons defeat?
Heading off to work now folks so I'll be less active. I'll be checking up on the thread though and noting responses, worst case I'll get to any unanswered questions tonight! :)
How did the British attempt to fight the column attacks of Napoleon's army throughout the Napoleonic wars and did they play a key role in the battle of Waterloo? Another question I have was hougoumont farm a strategic position or a part of the battle that was remember for the Coldstream Guard's holding it despite been heavily outnumbered
Where were Wellington's English soldiers drawn from? Were these largely veterans who had served under him in Iberia? Were a significant part of them green troops?
Also, were there any Indian soldiers in the English ranks?
I heard on NPR yesterday (Garrison Kellor) that it had rained the day before the battle & Napoleon waited till mid-day for the ground to dry to mobilize his forces. This cost him the victory. How much truth is there to this?
I know I'm late to the party but I figured I'd ask anyways:
To my understanding Napoleon wanted to launch his attack earlier than he ultimately did. How much earlier did he want to attack? And if he had managed to do so what effect would it have had on the course of the battle?
What was Wellington's biggest mistake during the course of the actual battle? What were its consequences and how was the situation recovered?
Did the area where the battle took place have any action on it in the Franco Prussian war, WWI or WWII?
