Hi. I'm Kathryn Gin Lum, author of Damned Nation: Hell in America from the Revolution to Reconstruction. I'm Assistant Professor of American religious history in the Religious Studies Department at Stanford University in collaboration with the Center for Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity.
Damned Nation tells the story of hell's survival and significance in America. Enlightenment critiques of hell diminished its importance elsewhere, so why did it not only survive, but thrive in the United States? To answer the question, the book takes us from the Universalist controversy of the 18th century to the anxious benches of the Second Great Awakening; from the homes of ordinary women and men to the asylums of the Northeast; from the visions of Native American prophets to the fiery rhetoric of abolitionists and slaveholders.
I've written a number of short related pieces, including an overview of hell's development in Aeon Magazine, "Five Best Books on Hell in American Culture" in The Wall Street Journal, and a piece on hell houses in The Washington Post. You can also read an excerpt from the book on Salon.com.
Ask me anything! I'll be checking between 8am and 4pm Pacific time on Thursday 10/29/15.
Thanks for all the terrific questions today, and sorry I couldn't get to everything! I'll be stepping away from my computer for the evening, but I'll return later to catch up. Really appreciate the thoughtful queries.
I was an evangelical for 13 years. I was converted as a teenager. Prior to that, my family and most everyone else I knew had this vague idea of hell where only bad people -- drug dealers, Nazis, mafia hitmen, child molesters, etc. -- would go. Everyone else would simply go to heaven by default because they exceeded a very low baseline of minimum goodness. Nothing to sweat there. Just don't join a local street gang or anything like that and you're good.
When I converted, I was taught that you could be a member of Doctors Without Borders who died saving orphans' lives in Chechnya and you'd go straight to hell if you weren't straight--by very specific, and very narrow evangelical standards--with Jesus. Whereas a dirtbag on death row whose kill count was in the double digits could accept Christ as his Lord and Savior moments before the needle went in, and he'd be good.
Where did that "soft" view of hell come from? It's like this unchurched folk understanding of hell (my parents never went to church or made me go to one) that kind of seeped into the general culture from I don't know where or how.
In what ways has this "soft" view come into conflict with the "hard" view of hell? When I converted, that "soft" view was disdained as being ignorant if not head-in-the-sand denialist, and they definitely wanted to see it stamped out so that people would get straight with Jesus.
Wow, thanks for doing this AMA. You've got one hell of a speciality there. Badum-ting!
ETA: Hope this doesn't delve too far up into the contemporary, but it seems that hell and satan don't scare anybody any more, if we're talking average Americans. In the very early 90s when I was in junior high, me and my friends saw this scare piece on TBN and it scared us so bad we nearly threw out our heavy metal records. Whereas a couple of years ago I watched Rosemary's Baby with some friends and we found it ridiculous. But when that movie was first out it must have caused nightmares in grown adults.
Researching people's understanding of hell, I imagine you came across some really colorful sources. What was one of your favorite finds in the archives?
Did convinced slaveholders believe in real equality in the afterlife?
First off, thanks very much for lending your time and expertise here. I figure I'd get my question in a little early in case I can't get to the computer tomorrow.
US religious leaders have frequently used the rhetoric of a degenerate hell-bound society to motivate the public around a host of perceived pressing moral issues — temperance in particular comes to mind as an example. What have religious leaders done, if anything, to harmonise this rhetoric with the image of America as a nation specially blessed by God? Were these two narratives even typically held by the same individuals?
Were there black ministers in the slaveholding South prior to Emancipation? How were they educated or employed? Were black religious leaders in the South able to preach anti-slavery sermons in any way or were they liable to be co-opted into preaching pro-slavery messages?
Thank you for doing this AMA! I have just added your book to my reading list! Your book sounds interesting, and this is certainly an aspect of American culture that's under researched!
Why the concept of Hell? Most scholarship on the history of religion in the United States seems to focus either on conflict and tolerance between denominations, missionary efforts toward Native Americans or African-Americans, or religion as a secondary influence on certain subcultures (early Puritans, isolated 19th century communities). So what made you decide that American beliefs or attitudes concerning a dreaded afterlife would be worthy of study?
During this past week I've watched quite a few horror movies, as perhaps other redditors have, and was amazed by how often these films have a very Biblical take on the Devil and Hell. Despite the fact that American society seems to have grown less religious, especially within the past few decades, why does the Judeo-Christian idea of Hell survive so strongly in popular culture?
Ah, what a happy day for me this is--I hadn't heard of your book before; looking at it it seems to be right in line with my interests! What a fortuitous discovery. Thank you very much for this AMA, Professor Gin Lum.
I have a methodological question. I am wondering, what criteria did you use to select the figures you deemed most important in your analysis? While I haven't read your book yet, since as mentioned above I only just heard of it, I did glance at its preview at amazon.com. Using the search function, I found some familiar names, such as Jonathan Edwards, but also didn't find a few folks I thought were relatively famous, such as Robert Lewis Dabney, a big figure in the Presbyterian church in America as well as a well-known defender of slavery. This isn't a criticism, of course; once I get my hands on the full text I'm sure I'll get a better handle on which regions and time periods (and thus personages) you're focusing on, but until then, I was wondering how you, as a historian, decided which people to analyze and quote and which ones you felt didn't need as much of a presence in your narrative?
I grew up in a Southern Unitarian Universalist church (which was awesome) but it always amazed me that there were old Universalist churches in the deep south. Were there specific events that caused Southern Universalists to turn away from the standard Baptist/Lutheran Heaven and Hell beliefs?
I wonder - do Catholics figure in your analysis? Was there something similar in American Catholics' perception of Hell?
Hi, Professor Gin Lum! Thanks for your research and doing an AMA here.
The press material for Damned Nation (nice title) makes the claim:
As time-honored social hierarchies crumbled before revival fire, economic unease, and political chaos, "saved" and "damned" became as crucial distinctions as race, class, and gender.
Can you please explain this a little? Those are pretty darn important distinctions in the early 19th century. How does belief (or lack of belief?) in predestination play into this?
What did the American Indians you studied have to say about hell? Overall, did you look at writings by any non-Christians?
How could (according to people at the time) an impersonal entity like a nation be damned?
When did Calvinism decline and when did Arminian or Quasi-Arminian Evangelical Christian ideas of choosing to turn away from damnation come to predominate over Calvinist ideas of election?
Similarly, when did universalism pass out of the theological mainstream (or near-mainstream)?
My rough impression is that most later 20th century Evangelicals are essentially Arminian but belief in universal salvation seems rare and not much discussed.
In Cuba historians like Moreno Fraginals have found tracts and the like which show slaveowners using religion as a tool to control their slaves and indoctrinate in them justifications of slavery. They even used sugar metaphors for slave souls as well as racial castes (darker people need to be purged for longer in purgatory so their souls could follow those of white people, etc.).
Did something similar happen in the US?
How did new denominations like the Baptists present and understand hell?
Hi Dr Lum!
What was the reaction of the American Baptist and Evangelical communities towards Darwinian evolution?
Why was upper NY called the burned over district?
Hi!
One question I have had for a long time is why the Puritan areas of the US became the center of the U.U. world in 150 years. It seems amazing to me that this about face was accomplished, but I have never quite found the theological thread that narrated how it happened.
Annihilationism seems to be "in vogue" in modern Christendom, at least in certain circles. I know it made some waves in England in the late 1800s; did this effect spill over much into the US?
Thanks for your time, professor. I'm curious how Native American netherworld mythology factored into the American experience ─ did it penetrate into Christian and mainstream discussion of hell? Did missionaries make any attempt to suborn local beliefs into their evangelicalism?
Thanks so much for doing this AMA! Couple of questions:
How come African-Americans after they were freed, and to some degree Native Americans after they started gaining some independence, continue to subscribe to Christianity? One would think they would want to liberate themselves from that last major shackle of oppression.
Have you read "The Death of Satan" by Andrew Delblanco? If so what did you think of his theories and have they influenced your research at all?
I'm from a Seventh-Day Adventist community, which as you likely know is strongly annihilationist. My understanding is that this view came connected with the rejection of Platonism/dualism that characterized many of the denomination's other beliefs such as strong narrative approaches to beliefs.
While I see direct connections between these stances and continental philosophy (especially in Nietzsche's rejection of platonism), I'm curious if these views were part of larger trends in North America, or more of an outlier.
Where did general ideas/attitudes about hell come from at this time?
How were ideas/attitudes about hell altered or contested at a popular level, and by who?
What role did hell play in debates about slavery and in the Civil War?
Do you think ideas/attitudes about hell were healthy or beneficial at that time?
Do we need more emphasis on hell in our own day?
How were ideas and attitudes about hell altered or contested during this time?