I've been tossing this idea around in my head for awhile and decided last week to pitch it to my fellow flaired users. But now that I've gotten their input, I want your input because this idea ultimately rests upon you.
I would like to start a sort of book club on AskHistorians, but not focus on books. Our recommendations of books are put into our Books and Resources list which anyone is free to look at, peruse, and read at their discretion. Instead, I would like to turn our focus on journal articles or book chapters from edited volumes. These are the sorts of resources that academics rely on, but sources in which we don't put into our list above. Articles and book chapters are advantages because they focus on aspects of research and topics of discussion that may not always be included or discusses in a book by a single or group of authors. These works may be dry, they may be technical, and they may just have a lot of jargon, but I feel like our community would still be able to come together and read one of these pieces, and have an intelligent discussion. AskHistorians users were invited this past year to the American Historical Association conference because of our methods to bridge the gap between academia and the public. So let's take this one step further. Let's try and attempt to broaden our horizons and knowledge about topics we might not normally seek out and read ourselves. Let's do this together.
This book club would work on a month long rotation. The first week, a topic will be posted calling for submissions. Anyone can submit an article or book chapter, but there are requirements. Said submission must be available online and open to anyone. The easiest way to do that, I've found, is by searching Google Scholar. Often, but not always, there are links to academic institutions or places like researchgate.net in which these articles and book chapters are free to read. See this example. When you make a submission, you must provide the title, authors, journal (if applicable) and date. Your basic citation format, essentially. But you must also provide the link to the work and either the abstract of the article or a summary (that you may have to write) of the work if it lacks an abstract.
Submissions need not be limited to just articles/chapters from history journals or edited volumes. As AskHistorians embraces multiple fields in order to understand the past, so shall the book club. Feel free to submit things from anthropology (archaeology, linguistics, ethnography, bio anthropology), art history, medical journals, etc. As long as it pertains to history it is open to for reading. There is also no time depth requirement on submissions. You don't need to submit something that came out in the last few years. If you've found something from the 1800s and think people will be interested in reading it, perhaps for the information or perhaps to discuss how dated the ideas are, feel free to submit that, too. Over the course of a week, the submission topic will be open to voting. At the end of that week, the submission with the highest amount of votes will be the chosen work to be read.
Some of my fellow flaired users raised concerns that we might fall into a rotation of the same topics or time periods and never move on to lesser talked about topics. For now, I say let the market decide on what we read. If it does become a problem, we could always implement a system in which once an article/chapter that covers one of our flaired areas gets read, we no longer will take submissions from that area until the rest of the flaired areas are covered. But that is an option for a later time depending on our initial success. Thoughts and feedback are particularly welcome on this area, as is the rest of the proposal.
Once we have our article/chapter to read, we have two weeks to read it ourselves. At the end of those two weeks a topic will be made for people to focus their discussion. Try to include what you liked about the article/chapter, what you didn't like, what you didn't understand, what you want to know more about, what were the problems in the methodology or premise, etc. As I said, this is a way to broaden our knowledge and an attempt to fill in some of those gaps we may be interested in filling. Hopefully we have a few flaired users around who can help to answer questions and point towards sources of further reading for those that are interested.
The discussion topic will be open for a week and following that week will be a new submissions topic. Hopefully with many new, exciting, and different submissions than the previous week.
Hopefully with this month long rotation there is enough time for people to read and participate. I understand our daily lives get in the way sometimes and we can't always make time for things like this if we had a much shorter time frame.
Comments below have wondered if we could use a shorter format. I proposed this:
We certainly could shorten it from a month to two weeks. For example,
Sunday: submission topic
Wednesday: announcement topic
2nd Wednesday: discussion topic
2nd Sunday: new submission topic
This gives people a week, including the weekend, to read the article/chapter as well as the following weekend to think of and search for new articles/chapters to submit.
Please, provide your input on this idea because ultimately this is for you rather than just me or my fellow flaired users. I want a system that works for you, that gets you interested in reading more, and wanting to come back for more information or to ask us questions.
If it was possible to make the journal article public without violating copyright, I would say that reading along would be a great way for non-flaired readers to see how history works in action and the difference between how an amateur and a pro would approach things.
As someone who majored in a much more STEM field, it would be interesting to see how that sort of thing works without the "we had an idea, this is how we tested the idea, here are the results, let's talk about why we were wrong :("
But I don't know if you guys have something akin to PLOS or PubMed Central
I think it would be really cool if a flaired user who is knowledgeable about the article ask us (non-flaired or differently flaired) questions to answer as a sort of homework assignment as we read and will spur even better discussion. Or even a test/quiz at the end of the reading or month to poll all of our answers to see how we did/discussed the topic!
What do you think?
It would be fun, but any discussion on the topic should be an open discussion, exempt from most of the sub rules.
there's a precedent for this sort of thing on reddit already, if anyone is interested in seeing how it has gone/can go. /r/musictheory has an "article of the month" feature run by the mods (they have the framework and /u/nmitchell076 gives an "appetizer" to introduce the topic before posing some questions about the article itself to start discussion) that provides the sort of outlet that it looks like you want here. it works well there, and music tends to be even more jargon-heavy than history, i think. i love this idea a lot!
I would be very keen. One of the things I miss from academia is not having access to or a focus to make me read through journals and edited works.
I love this idea.
I don't see a reason for guided discussion, homework-inspired questions, or essay prompts — I kinda feel too old for that noise — but folks to talk about it with is something I miss when I read an article mentioned here.
I think this would be a great idea. I'm not sure I understand the concern with falling into the same topics or time periods considering that's basically what happens with normal questions anyway. I think with this idea there would be less chance of that happening.
I'm on the fence about the month rotation though. I agree that people's daily lives probably wouldn't allow a week-long rotation, but a month seems a bit long. I feel like the discussion would fizzle out fairly quickly. But maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, this sounds awesome. I also think /u/ag11600 and /u/shotpun are onto something. Maybe not with outright homework assignments, but guided discussion would be a great thing.
So long as the article isn't behind a paywall, I'm in.
So I'm not a historian by any means and don't have anything to contribute other than to say I'd love to join the book club.
+1 post showing support.
As AskHistorians embraces multiple fields in order to understand the past, so shall the book club. Feel free to submit things from anthropology (archaeology, linguistics, ethnography, bio anthropology), art history, medical journals, etc. As long as it pertains to history it is open to for reading.
In regards to linguistics, what kinds of historical linguistics materials would you want suggested? General histories of specific language varieties I'm guessing, but what about diachronic treatment of linguistic features? Grammaticalization is a big interest of mine, and I know lots of great papers and monographs on the subject. I'd be willing to help walk people through the jargon if they're interested and are not familiar with linguistics conventions (although there would be a lot to learn to make sense of the literature...). I'd love the same with any archeological articles that people would suggest, as I have an interest in the subject, but little background knowledge.
(Also putting linguistics under the purview of anthropology with the 4 fields quip hurts me. May the ghost of de Saussure haunt you tonight :P)
I think it's a very good idea. Do you feel that non-flaired users should be allowed to suggest articles so long as they meet the criteria?
I think this would be a good sub in and of itself
I'd be really interested in this. Like others have mentioned, as a recent graduate sometimes it's hard to keep the motivation to keep reading and learning and this would be a great way to bring my self to maintain the habits I had during school.
I would be down for this. Could generate some cool discussion
This is a fantastic idea. The more quality reading material non-historians like me can find the better.
[load of uninformed opinion] it's about time you created an actual website for this subreddit. So many of you are giving so much on this forum and whilst I understand that this subreddit gives opportunity to inform and teach, I also think that you guys should in some way derive reward from what you do, outside of the intellectual achievement.
And really, though reddit might have given this life, I think the idea & practise is bigger than reddit, frankly.
I swear to god im not some account being used. I just think this is really a very, very special part of the internet.
edit: I'm a bit drunk, but isn't the whole point of data to be recording history? The whole bloody point of storing data is well I don't know, as I said I'm blocked, something about peer-reviewed analysis, pretty much live. But if this subreddit doesn't turn out to be one of the most important websites ever considered I'll, I dunno. I'm not clever enough to say how important this place is, but it is fucking monumental.
I'm very keen on this. My own access is extremely limited, being an autodidact in a small town where neither the community college nor the county library has journal subscriptions of a useful kind. (And I find JSTOR's freebie program inconvenient to use and difficult to read within.) So anything that helps pull back the curtain more is welcome.
I'm definitely not a historian, but I love learning about history! And I think the topics/sources that are most important for people to learn about and discuss are the ones we wouldn't think to read. So I'm very excited for this idea!
Do you think it would be possible to create a bot that alerts us when a book club related thread is posted, similar to how /r/fatpeoplestories has beetus_bot?
Works for me. I've only been a subscriber a little while but already found it a fascinating sub. So anything that opens up a direct line of conversation with material everyone has read sounds like a good plan.
Regarding the booklist, I don't feel that it's frequently updated enough, and seems to trend towards more general works when more focused works would be welcome; the China section stands out as a salient example for me. Would it be possible to have a permanent book recommendation thread, and those that flaired users sign off on get added to the booklist?
let's do it. when can we start?
I think this would be fantastic. As someone going into a Classics focused Ancient History PHD program, I don't think my program will push me too hard in reading history outside of my own field. This would be a great way to force myself to do so.
I like the 2 week system, it gives more of a chance for rotation. I think it would be great if with the article post the submitter also offered a broader book that would give those who have no background on the period or subject something to read to make sense of it if they are interested. Example, an article something about western Christianity in the 3rd century could come paired with Peter Brown: The Rise of Western Christendom. Etc. I mean I don't know if you should make that a requirement, but an option maybe?
edit: Oh and personally I think it would be even cooler to have something like this with primary sources. All hail the primary source.
is there anyway we can suggest stuff to that book list, because there are some very important major works which should probably be added to it
like I can't find anything on 17th century England, which was perhaps the most important century in English history
I'd definitely support this, I think it'd be great to just get people outside this field to understand the level of research that goes on. Many see humanities as vastly different to the 'proper' sciences, and I think it'd be good for people to see real academic journals on the front page of the sub, and proper discussion about their content.
I just want to reiterate what others have said; this is a great idea! I switched majors and no longer have a historical focus in my degree, but I loved the research involved.
I've been slowly reading books recommended by AskHistorians. Would be join in an organized version of what I'm doing. I go fairly slowly though.
I have tons of books on Medievalism, especially as to how it relates to popular culture. If anyone is interested in those, I can toss them up.
As a student doing a master's in historical theology, I would love this! I pursue topics on my own, but I enjoy reading about interesting time periods and areas outside the ones I typically gravitate towards.
I think putting questions such as a "how do you think this article impacts this thought about time period"? With the article would be a good idea because it'll stimulate ideas for the discussion.
These would have to be non-threatening questions that ask a reader to think about the article and see if they agree with the author, disagree, does it change your opinion on things? Et cetera. The questions you get in grad school kind of thing, where it's like defend or oppose.
I also think we should do topics that aren't frequently brought up in schools, like articles about post-war life like it was during the Occupation of Japan. Black markets, beginnings of yakuza power, rapes, orphaned children, rebuilding an economy, the jumpstart of the manga industry! Lots happened in the 1950s, and not a lot of people know anything about that.
However, Japan is just an example. Lots of areas that could be very interesting to read and hear about that aren't brought up a lot in classrooms. Gender (focusing on the masculinity or women within a group), homosexuality, and culture are good choices I think.
I would love for this happen!
The books and resources list helped me find the books and knowledge that I craved for and I wouldn't mind reading some journal articles!
As just finishing my undergrad, and losing this aspect of my life, I'm glad that I've found an opportunity elsewhere! I think that discussion prompts that are optional for discussion could yield beneficiary discussion, either before (so people can think about them while reading) or after. If those prompts aren't interesting to someone, then open discussion would be more than excellent. Love this idea!
Project Gutenberg also has about 50000 ebooks available for free. I don't know if that would be helpful?
I love the idea, but I do think that even two weeks is too long. I don't want to discuss an article I've read yesterday in 2 weeks time, I wanna discuss it now :p
That would be awesome, any idea of what we would read first?
As someone with poor access to resources, I would be wholeheartedly in favor and an eager participant on the amateur side.
Sounds fun. I would be interested in participating.
This is a great idea, and I would very much enjoy reading it.
I also think it would be interesting if you guys read non-academic things, like more pop-history things on the web, or things that were maybe at a similar quality level to Dan Carlin's history podcasts. In other words the sort of things that us non-flaired plebeians are likely to read or enjoy reading, and then that could lead to discussion of the things they get wrong, things they get right, and maybe some more in depth examination of the topics they discuss.
I know that is rather different from your intention with this bookclub but I think it would be great for us readers (if maybe more tedious for the academic participants)
Not a historian but I would love this.
I would definitely be interested, especially because it would give me the opportunity to take a look at places and time periods outside my own field of study.
This needs to happen. I'm not a historian myself but as a history buff and lover of this sub, It'd be great. It would spark a ton of discussion. It'd also inform me and the readers of what books/articles are worth reading fully. I'd think voting could be a good idea, but we would need to keep it even because I think a lot of votes would go to the popular time periods. Maybe disqualify a topic after it's been done for so many months?
Are memoirs by historical figures acceptable? They can provide a unique insight into the thoughts of decision-makers in a way that is not necessarily captured with paper records and traditional documentation.
I'd be all for it. It would also be nice if we could keep a link in the Features that had a list of past discussions and articles for future users/wanting to go back without having to search for them.
Is there an issue with documentaries? I don't think I have seen them be mentioned as a source here before, but it is my understanding there are some good in depth ones on YouTube, and the audio-visual medium might also help in bridging the gap.
I don't think I'd be able to really stay updated, I never do with that sort of stuff. But, I have a reading list that you should add- that is if you are doing payed books:
For full on historians looking for depth in medieval subjects:
-Asbridge's The Crusades is a far better Crusades history that goes into good depth than any other I've read
-Morris' The Norman Conquest oncemore just a great book for depth and detail
-Jones' The Plantagenets this one I would avoid if you hate sensationalism in history, Dan Jones is a real historian and he writes it as a real historian but he's on the edge of being more entertainer level than educator level
-Moore's 2008 edition of The Formation of a Persecuting Society is definitely the best analysis of medieval heresy I've read
For casual historians looking for analysis and shorter reads:
-Phillip's Holy Warriors is probably an overall better analysis than Asbridge but far less deep, if you like battles go for Asbridge but this is a far shorter read
-Asbridge's The Greatest Knight good book on the Plantagenets through the eyes of the knights
-Golding's Conquest and Colonisation a slightly more boring read, maybe go with the "A short introduction to" book isntead
-Pegg's A Most Holy War for lighter reading on medieval heresy
Look how unsuccessful the podcast is.
It's not why people are in this sub for.
What is the percentage of people interested in exactly the same topic as the book/article covers? It's low.
What's the percentage of those people who are also willing to read that particular book/chapter/article and then wait to try and remember the details enough to discuss it?Close to zero.
