First off many thanks to u/400-Rabbits for giving me this chance to talk about a topic that's important for me – and for being a great host all around!

Some background on myself: I'm originally from Berlin, Germany. My background is rather in European/Hispanic history, but especially my M.A. in Global History and current Phd project got me more interested in studying non-European cultures, with a fascination for Latin America and South Asia. Although I'd say that living and working in a few different countries definitely influenced these interests as well.

I'd like to add some points that didn't fit in or (more likely) that had slipped my mind, and also give some reading recommendations for those interested:

Franciscans: Various other colleges for sons of the native elite were founded by the Franciscans across Mexico. Attempts to establish schools for native girls (to instruct nuns) were abandoned early on. I should add that the Franciscans used their knowledge of Nahua customs to aid in their conversion campaigns – so that even the Colegio de Santa Cruz Tlatelolco was at the very beginning modelled on Nahua education, and especially the calpulli's structure. This was quickly seen as ineffective, similar to how native ordination to priesthood and other rights were given up later from the mid 16th c. onwards. The Colegio was eventually surpassed in importance by the Real Universidad de México geared more towards creole students, reflecting the social changes of the times.

Native communities: However, taking a more traditional view of native cultures being “in decline” in this time would be misleading. Our focus in the episode was more on native elites, but there were also ways for commoners to claim pre-colonial rights to lands and privileges. One example are the Títulos Primordiales – documents reclaiming native communities' rights before colonial courts, following royal legislation that had changed earlier policies of land possession. While the títulos were often based on pre-colonial cartographic sources, they were also necessarily adapted and included post-conquest history. Títulos originated in the late 16th c., and continued to be recognised into the 18th century.

In the end, I want to highlight change and continuity in early colonial Mexico: Both certain indigenous and Spanish customs and social structures remained in use, but were also increasingly adapted to colonial life, especially from the late 16th c. onwards after an initial period of relative continuity. Some examples we discussed include the casta system; the continuing influence of pre-conquest political institutions; but also the formation of new forms of transmitting knowledge e.g. through the Crónicas de Indias. These are clear signs of a hierarchical process of adaptation much more complex than a simple “substitution” of one people's culture with those of another people would suggest.

I tried selecting mainly English sources, but would be happy to recommend Spanish ones as well:

Colonial Mexico:

• Gruzinski, Serge: The Conquest of Mexico – The Incorporation of Indian Societies into the Western World, 16th-18th Centuries, Cambridge 1993.
• Hinz, Felix: „Hispanisierung“ in Neuspanien 1519-1568, Vol. 2, Hamburg 2005.
• Lockhart, James: Nahuas After the Conquest: a Social and Cultural History of the Indians of Central Mexico, sixteenth through eighteenth Centuries, Stanford, CA 1992.

Gruzinski and Hinz focus on the Spanish side, specifically on the religious orders and their conversion campaigns. Lockhart's work gives a contrasting view, drawing on a multitude of native sources to survey the continuing influence of Nahua structures and practices.

Native writers:

• Adorno, Rolena: The indigenous ethnographer: the „indio ladino“ as historian and cultural mediator, in „Implicit Understandings“, Stuart Schwartz (Ed.), Cambridge 1994.
• Ramos, Gabriela; Yannakakis, Yanna (Eds.): Indigenous Intellectuals. Knowledge, Power, and Colonial Culture in Mexico and the Andes, Durham & London 2014.
• Villela, Peter B.: Indigenous Elites and Creole Identity in Colonial Mexico, 1500–1800, Cambridge 2016.

While Adorno's article serves as a great intro to native chroniclers of both colonial Mexico and Peru, Ramos' & Yannakakis' edited volume goes into more detail on the topic. On the other hand, Villela looks at a larger time-frame, comparing Mexican indigenous and creole elites.

Spanish American historiography:

• Brading, D. A.: The First America – The Spanish Monarchy, Creole Patriots, and the Liberal State 1492-1867, Cambridge 1991.
• Brendecke, Arndt: The Empirical Empire. Spanish Colonial Rule and the Politics of Knowledge, Berlin, Boston, forthcoming October 2016.
• Cañizares-Esguerra, Jorge: How to Write the History of the New World – Histories, Epistemologies, and Identities in the Eighteenth-Century Atlantic World, Palo Alto, CA 2001.
• Mignolo, Walter D.: The Darker Side of the Renaissance, Literacy, Territoriality and Colonization, ²Ann Arbor, MI 2003.

Despite different focal points, Brading (Spanish and creole institution building), Cañizares-Esguerra (18th c. Spanish and Mexican debates on native people) and Mignolo (supplanting of native with European forms of transmitting information) all discuss native writers as well. Brendecke analyses structures of knowledge production in the Spanish empire.

Selected primary sources:

• Alva Ixtlilxochtil, Fernando de: The Native Conquistador. Alva Ixtlilxochitl’s Account of the Conquest of New Spain, Ed. and transl. by Amber Brian, Bradley Benton, and Pablo García Loaeza, University Park, PA 2015. (English translation of his “History of Ancient Mexico” is ongoing)
• Codex Chimalpahin (2 Vols.), Society and Politics in Mexico Tenochtitlan, Tlatelolco, Texcoco, Culhuacan, and other Nahua Altepetl in Central Mexico, Ed. and transl. by Arthur J. O. Anderson and Susan Schroeder, Norman, OH 1997.
• de Sahagún, Bernardino, The Florentine Codex: General History of the Things of New Spain (12 Vols.), transl. by Arthur J. O. Anderson, Charles E. Dibble, Salt Lake City, UT 2002.

Apologies for the late episode; there were technical difficulties!

Special thanks to /u/40kfreak, Eric Hacke, Will Raybould, Elm, Jonathan Wallace, Charles-Eric Lemelin, Andrew Stead, William Ryan, Stuart Gorman, Daniel Schmidt, Bill Rubin, Sarah Gilbert, Mark Katerberg, Vlad, and Max M. for their generous support of the podcast through the AskHistorians Patreon. And thanks to all our new supporters as well!

And a big big thanks to /u/drylaw for lending his time and mind to the show.

This sounds like it's going to be a great episode

I really really wanted to like this episode. The topic is absolutely fascinating, and the speakers both clearly knowledgeable. However, the combination of production values issues and the guest's diction made it a fruterating experience for the listener.

Also, there's a lot of off-hand references to historical events and persons of the early post-conquest period which was very confusing to someone with only a cursory grasp of Nahua society and early colonial mexico more generally.

May I politely suggest that this topic be revisited at some point in the future, and the esteemed guest should please please try to use less verbal filler and have prepared outline of remarks? The amount of "oh I forgot to mention this" made it very hard to follow the chain of reasoning and narrative for a non-specialist.

/u/DryLaw clearly knows his matter, but between his diction and 400-Rabbit's constant jumping between topics, this episode was rather a difficult listen.

There was a lot of references to the role of indiugous interpeters in the Court of New Spain, but not how the Spanish government in Mexico worked more generally in this period.

This is a stellar topic. Really enjoyed it. Adding to my reading list.

Looking forward to more pre-Columbian and Colonial Mexico topics in the future.