AMA: The German Army's Role in the Holocaust

by waitmanb

I'm Dr. Waitman Wade Beorn, author of Marching Into Darkness: The Wehrmacht and the Holocaust in Belarus. I'm here today to answer your questions about the role of the German military in the Holocaust.

Live responses will begin around 2pm (EST) and last until around 4pm (EST). Looking forward!

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Ok everyone, it is 4:50PM and I am logging off. Thanks so much for your great questions and comments. It was truly a pleasure to think about and answer them and I hope they were helpful.

AnnalsPornographie

Do we know if soldiers who participated in the Holocaust later on show signs of regret or PTSD? What about the opposite, are their records of soldiers that were proud of their participation?

commiespaceinvader

Dr. Beorn, thank you for doing this AMA. It's an honor.

My questions for you are the following:

  • One of the central points of your book Marching into Darkness is that military unit culture resp. a unit's commander played a pivotal role in a unit's violence. Violent men lead violent units, was I believe the shorthand you used. How would characterize the dynamics between unit commander and members of the unit? How – aside from direct orders – did commanders encourage their men to be violent, as far as can be told from the sources? In my own previous work I found sufficient evidence for a Wehrmacht commander in Serbia to show that his biographical background matched a strong antipathy of Bolshevism and the Serbs but I had trouble sketching the dynamic this caused in his unit.

  • A second principle argument of your book was that the Wehrmacht used a Jew-Bolshevik-partisan calculus from the beginning and that this was pivotal for the Holocaust. How do you view the "Vernichtungskrieg" debate en large and especially the arguments by historians in opposition to the war of annihilation thesis like Klaus Schmider, who focus on the situational aspects resp. the escalatory character of Partisan warfare?

  • Also, concerning the importance of the "Jew-Bolshevik-Partisan" calculus: How do you view the role of institutionally learned experiences such as the tradition of anti-Guerilla warfare and the experience of the First World War in the German/Austrian armies as a factor in this regard?

  • And finally, can you comment more generally on the staying-power of the clean Wehrmacht myth in the, if you will, popular memory and historical narrative of English-language countries? For me, as a German-speaker, it is rather surprising to see Rommel reverences and clean Wehrmacht arguments in English-language discourses.

Sorry for the many questions, I am really exited you could join us today.

SageRiBardan

The Holocaust museum has catalogued ~42,000 death camps, bordellos, labour camps, "care" centers, ghettos, etc. With this new information (as of 2013), how tired are you of the clean Wehrmacht myth or the myth that the citizens were unaware of what was taking place?

Is it really at all likely there were any German citizens who didn't know what was happening?

Edited for clarity.

tobias1792

What role did the German Navy play in the Holocaust?

waitmanb

Ok everyone, I am logging off. Thanks so much for your great questions and comments. It was truly a pleasure to think about and answer them and I hope they were helpful.

best, Dr. Beorn.

sunagainstgold

Thank you for participating in this AMA, Dr. Beorn!

The Amazon blurb for your book opens with a sickening thud:

On October 10, 1941, the entire Jewish population of the Belarusian village of Krucha was rounded up and shot.

World War II (obviously, tragically) did not end on October 11. How is there an "after" for a horrific act like this? What did the troops involved do next--militarily, personally?

ApparentlyNotAToucan

Hello Dr. Beorn and thank you for your AMA. My grandfather was a Wehrmacht medic on the Eastern Front and subsequently a Russian PoW. My question is: Do you know of any special duties regarding the Holocaust that medical personnel was specifically tasked with?

ThucydidesWasAwesome

Hello! Thank you for doing this important AMA.

A question which is slightly related to /u/AnnalsPornographie 's: Is there a comprehensive study of the psychology of those perpetuating the holocaust?

On a related note, how have the hypotheses, like Arendt's Banality of Evil (evil acts were done due to lack of critical reflection and thought) stood up to decades of scholarship on the subject?

In short, how have we come to understand how normal human beings were capable of being complicit in such horrible acts?

xmachina

Thank you for doing this AMA.

What was the relationship between the Wehrmacht and the Schutzstaffel (SS) in the context of the Holocaust? Did they collaborate and if so was their collaboration without problems?

duosharp

I'd like to know how troops were assigned- was it voluntary? Did they work with auxiliaries? How was the relationship between the various factions overseeing such camps and operations? Thanks!

TunisMustBeDestroyed

We have all heard of the myth "clean Wehrmacht" indicating they had nothing to do with the atrocities committed against the Jews and other groups. However, how large a part of the Wehrmacht could actually be held fully or partly responsible in the Eastern theather of War? Was it simply a small percentage which stained all of Wehrmacht for posterity or was it the vast majority of the Wehrmacht that were partly responsible?

best4bond

Hey, I was just at Dachau today, which is absolutely an experience I recommend everyone to have at some point in their lives...

But during the film that they show there, they mentioned that the soldiers left their dogs behind when some fled the incoming American solders, but they didn't say what happened to the dogs, were the dogs killed? Used by the US army? Given new owners?

(Should point out in case I get downvoted for seeming like I care more about the dogs than humans, the museum covered everything excellently but it just mentions there being dogs left behind and doesn't go further.)

LukeInTheSkyWith

Thank you very much for doing this AMA, Dr. Beorn! Would it be possible to elaborate on the interaction between Einsatzgruppe A and the population of the Baltic states? Was there anything that stood out about the unit itself that would make them specifically suited for this area and the absolutely horrible rate of eradication of Jewish people?

roosterrugburn

Did the Wehrmact's role affect its combat effectiveness? Say, battles lost because units were tied up in the Holocaust, Ect.

Goat_im_Himmel

In Belarus, what do we see in terms of the level and extent of cooperation from the local, non-Jewish population? Was there a general support for anti-Jewish policies? Significant involvement by local auxiliaries? Or did they mostly keep out of it?

lighthaze

This is a question that has been talked about here a few times, but thanks to the myth of the clean Wehrmacht, it still comes up relatively often.

Do you know of any Wehrmacht soldiers who were punished for rejecting a command to commit war crimes?

barkevious2

Thanks for doing this AMA! I have a few questions - answer as many or as few as you please. I apologize if they are somewhat broad, and I understand if this makes it difficult or impossible to provide comprehensive responses.

(1) To what extent was there resistance (active or passive) among members of the Wehrmacht to participation in crimes against humanity? What form(s) did that resistance take? Was that resistance at all effective - even locally - at preventing the participation of large numbers of regular Army troops in those crimes?

(2) You're obviously well-placed to comment on Professor Browning's "ordinary men" thesis as it might apply to the Wehrmacht. Were the interpersonal dynamics described by Browning in the Ordnungspolizei also present in Wehrmacht field units?

(3) Browning's work drew extensively from the police records of post-war German investigations into the crimes of Reserve Police Battalion 101. Were there any similar police investigations into the behavior of Wehrmacht units? Or was this rendered impossible by the popularity of the "clean Wehrmacht" myth?

Thanks again!

airborneleaf

Are there any recorded cases of small groups of soldiers or entire units outright refusing to commit atrocities, or even going so far as to help potential victims to escape? Thanks.

ArmsBazaar

Greetings Dr. Beorn, I appreciate you doing this AMA and I was thrilled to see this pop up on the front page of my Reddit account. I have two questions for you in regards to the Wehrmacht and any WWI veterans it housed from the Deutsches Heer in it's NCO and Officer Corps.

How did World War I veterans who served in the Deutsches Heer and were now either officers or senior NCO staff in the Wehrmacht feel about The Holocaust?

And finally, I know that there are Jewish veterans of the Deutsches Heer. For those of them that were distinguished in war or held senior positions, what was their comrade's outlook towards them in the Wehrmacht in regards to The Holocaust; assuming some of these men served together in the Deutsches Heer.

Lewisb2

Thank you for doing this Dr. Beorn! I will be sure to purchase your book as we will be looking at the Holocaust this year and the next at university. Arno J Meyer writes the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) decided to liquidate Soviet Pows as early as July 17, 1941, "without coercion or intimidation from Hitler and Himmer". My question is primarily about the recruitment of Soviet PoWs into Wehrmacht ranks.

How were prospective Soviet PoWs selected to join the Russian Liberation Army (ROA)?

Was there disagreement amongst the OKW for allowing Soviet PoWs to volunteer for the ROA and not having them liquidated?

And finally, How complicit were the ROE in the atrocities committed in Belarus?

jibbroy

What is easiest and most reliable source for information that without a doubt proves that not only did the Holocaust happen but outlines how and if the wehrmacht was involved? I would really appreciate this as it may come in handy for the times I find myself debating the alt right

nate077

My questions regard Konrad Jarausch and the experience of Soviet prisoners of war in Durchsganglager.

Without diminishing one or the other, would you regard the annihilatory policies which were directed at Soviet prisoners and those which were directed at Jews as expressions of a common racial animus, or were they differently motivated?

In your experience, how aware would a guard in a Durchsganglager been of the broader conduct of the war?

Would they have been regularly involved in the segregation of incoming inmates according to their political or racial status?

When company commanders were made responsible for propagandizing in their units, what sort of materials would they present, and how attentive were they to their duties?

And, especially regarding Konrad Jarausch, what is your reaction to reading his accounts of brutality intermingled with reflections on and admiration of the cultural life of the Russians he met?

Given his apparent introspection, what might have motivated him to continue in a duty that was enabling murder?

goatfarm

Thank you for this AMA. Two question:

  • I’ve read that rescuers of Jewish people were the exception but were largely made up of diplomats who could provide state protection, those who lived in intact-states that did not criminalize rescue, and those who lived in former states but viewed themselves as outsiders in their communities. Within the German Army: what sort of soldier resisted and/or rescued?

  • I’ve read that the idea that most German citizens were unaware of the Holocaust as it was happening is a lie. That in fact the act of killing a Jewish person would turn even a soldier who previously displayed no anti-Semitism into someone abhorrent of Jewish people and proud of the atrocities inflicted upon them (and thus they wrote to their loved ones about it). What is your take on this?

LabesofAexonia

Hi Dr Beorn, When do you think the decision for the Holocaust took place?

Incandenza2015

Thank you for doing this!!!

Putting aside the absolute horror and inhumanity of the entire enterprise, I've always wondered, weren't soldiers upset by the Holocaust in terms of resource allocation? Did they voice concerns over the money and energy expended on the system and camps? As the German military started to struggle, I imagine a lot of the camps' soldiers' family and friends were dying on the battlefield, while they worked on the Holocaust. Did the counter productive nature of work bother them? Why not just shoot the undesirable populations upon identification? Or were the labor camps a net gain?

EHEC

Thank you for doing this AMA.

Both of my grandfathers were in the Wehrmacht and became POW at the end of the war. My maternal grandpa was a POW in Russia and my paternal grandpa in the USA. Since both of them passed away and were quite reluctant to talk about their wartime experiences the only way I see to find out about what they did and didn't do in the war is to contact the deutsche Dienststelle (WAst). Could you give me some clues as to where else I could look or ask?

How careful where the Germans when it came leaving potentially incriminating evidence in their field reports? Was the description clear or worded in a way to achieve plausible deniability?

0masterdebater0

This might be a complicated question to answer but I was wondering; how much did the average Wehrmacht solider know about the holocaust?

Obviously they would have known that "undesirables" were being rounded up by the party for years, but did they actually know about the death camps?

ShutY0urDickHolster

How did German deal with those opposed to their given orders? Most militaries in modern times have things that say you can openly disobey a superior if those instructions are clear war crimes. Did they have anything like that?

FlippantWalrus

Thank for for coming here with this AMA Dr Beorn.

This isn't a history question, but a personal one; what motivates you to study such an incredibly dark period of history?

hobbes0

I know that foreign (non Austro-German) military and paramilitary groups participated in the holocaust--example being Lithuanian Auxiliaries. How were these groups motivated to join in the murder of civilians?

AngryTudor1

Dr Beorn

I have read recently something that suggested members of the SS, Einsatzgruppen etc were frequently taking pictures and being encouraged to make albums of aktions they were involved in.

How strong was censorship of these kinds of activities? Is there any evidence of soldiers getting records of their deeds home, whether secretly or otherwise? Were the families or soldiers involved ever aware of what they were doing?

KingDeath

Are there any hints about the role of an individual's socialisation in regard to his willingness to kill innocents? That is, were soldiers who were grew up in the Weimar Republic/ late german Empire and therefore less exposed to the extreme antisemitism of national socialist education less compliant than soldiers who experienced the majority of their childhood/adolsecense in the Third Reich?

cheekygeek

Have you come across anything in your research concerning Jehovah's Witnesses & the holocaust? Many people don't realize that Jehovah's Witnesses were one of the groups that were also victims of the holocaust (and, in many cases, the only ones that could leave the concentration camps, if only they signed a renouncement of their faith). They also did not join the Hitler youth or the military due to their strict views on pacificim & maintaining neutrality on nationalistic politics.

The purple triangle was a concentration camp badge used by the Nazis to identify Bibelforscher (or "Bible Student") in Nazi Germany. Over 99% of these were Jehovah's Witnesses, but a small number of Adventists, Baptists, Bible Student splinter groups, and pacifists were also included. - source

caillumknowles

How accepted is the defence "I was just following orders" for say a standard guard who was stationed at a concentration/death camp?

utivich95

Hi thank you for doing this AMA! Was there any active resistence within the Wehrmacht to undermine the holocaust?
I've heard a bit about the ost battalions in western europe, did they play a role in the holocaust?

TommyCfromMaghaberry

Have you read and, if so, what is your opinion on Arno Mayer's Why Did The Heavens Not Darken? The 'Final Solution' in History?

tequila0341

To what extent were Wehrmacht regular infantry and armored divisions implicated in massacres of civilians, as opposed to second-line units primarily meant for security/occupation/counterinsurgency work? Were front-line units often seconded to occupation duties once pulled off the front line?

bLububL

Were the German Army the organizers of the eventual exile of the Nazi's to South America?

MisazamatVatan

Thank you for doing this ama Dr Beorn.

The write up for your book says that a few of the soldiers refused to shoot the Jewish citizens and some even helped them escape. My question is what happened to those soldiers, were they reprimanded or punished?

Natrounius

Hey Dr. Beorn,

Thanks for doing this AMA, I'm a history student at uni.

Do you have any advice for entering academia or even just picking what to write your dissertation on?

Thanks so much

artisanbeltbuckles

Were there medals specifically for Holocaust related activities? Or did the army try to hide their actions or disguise them as something else?

UltimateAnswer42

Considering German and Prussian culture of order and obedience, I have a question that I have not seen answered. Were there any companies that refused to commit acts of genocide? Not just individuals, but as a unit/company/regiment? If so what was the response of those in command?

skazzleprop

Dr. Beorn, thank you for your AMA. Are there examples of officers resisting orders to massacre or somehow working against them?

supernamekianpenis

Were there instances of German Soldiers letting Belarusian Jews go out of pity, or even defecting to help them?

Also what was the likely-hood of surviving the holocaust in Belarus? It did spend most of the war under German occupation and to my knowledge felt the impact of deathcamps and executions greatly. My Grandmother survived, but absolutely refused to ever speak of it.

YaDunGoofed

Dr Beorn, what if at all was the role of the local population's "Polizei" in aiding the Holocaust? Contrastingly, what role if at all did the Partisans play in preventing it?

ZoggZ

How aware and supportive were the common soldiers stationed on the western front (say those involved in the occupation of France) of the Holocaust and the atrocities committed on the Eastern Front in general?

Semaug

Are the Germany Army's atrocious actions more influenced by lack of enforcement of rules, or by direct orders to commit terrible acts?

DuceGiharm

How did German executioners reconcile their Christianity with the crimes they committed?

Oculosdegrau

Hi, thank you for this AMA!

Were there German military commanders who opposed the Holocaust because it drained important resources from the war effort? If so, how was that seen by the rest of the german army and the nazi government? Was this a "treasonous" thought?

I suppose that many commanders, especially those who served in WWI and knew about the necessity of men and material, would see the holocaust as a waste of resources

BMan3000

You mentioned in an answer to a question that the "few who resisted could find ways of doing so within the confines of the system"-how did they do this? What form did resistance take amongst members of the Army?

Count_Frackula

Wow! Great AMA, thanks. Are there any instances of entire units (officers and enlisted men) refusing to murder Jews or Soviet prisoners/civilians?

cheekygeek

I'm curious about what percentage of the German military was Jewish at the time that all of this anti-semitism began? (It only makes sense that if a percentage of the German population was Jewish, then some percentage of those in the military also were.) What happened to them? Did the military turn on its own or did Jewish members of the German military flee or leave the military when they had the opportunity? Was circumcision a dead giveaway that one was Jewish in Germany at that time, or did non-Jewish Germans also practice male circumcision?

CoH696

Hello, I wonder how much did tank crews participated in some crimes?

For example Otto Carius mentioned that his unit never shoot at retreating soldiers from knocked out tank.