In a TIL post someone comments that the British lied to the French about planning to withdraw by Dunkirk. Is there any truth to that?

by ytruhg

"In 1940 France lost 100 000 men, fallen fighting against the Germans on the field of battle. The British lost about 1/10th of that, and half of those (5000) because the Luftwaffe sank one of the ships they were fleeing in. Churchill's cabinet had ordered that they abandon the fight and, to make this worse, hide it from and lie to their French and Belgian allies (so that these poor suckers would cover their retreat). Churchill even reassured the French leadership (when they noticed something was not quite right) that the British were not withdrawing and in it till the end. And, adding insult to injury, for morale reasons, British propaganda then blamed German victories on the French and Belgian lacking fighting spirit. Having Hollywood now making films to try and make the British look good and their unspeakable betrayal at Dunkirk heroic is just further bullshit added to insult to the injury. Oh and by the way, when the French leadership asked the USA to enter the war, they were told to fuck off. The USA would not enter that war until they were themselves attacked years later. US history books are of course chock full of references to French (who declared war on Hitler) appeasement of Hitler. :/ "

Brisbanealchemist

The British lost about 1/10th of that, and half of those (5000) because the Luftwaffe sank one of the ships they were fleeing in

The British Expeditionary Force (BEF) lost much closer to 50-60 thousand men killed, missing or captured during the Battle for France, which was kicked off by a Brilliant deception by the German High Command and tactics that allowed the German armies to not only separate the allies, but also trap the BEF in a pocket away from help (Forgotten soldiers gives the story of one of the German Sergeants who led one of the attacks).

The decision to withdraw the BEF was made when it was certain that their position was untenable and the British ran the very real risk of losing their entire army (men and material), and even then, the withdrawal from Dunkirk resulted in the BEF losing nearly all of their equipment, such as heavy guns and lorries etc.

British propaganda then blamed German victories on the French and Belgian lacking fighting spirit

I haven't heard that, but I am not as well read on this topic as others. The Allies were defeated by combination of Allied Complacency, excellent German strategy (and tactics) as well as a bold new approach to fighting (Blitzkrieg).

Having Hollywood now making films to try and make the British look good and their unspeakable betrayal at Dunkirk heroic is just further bullshit added to insult to the injury.

The British withdrawal from Dunkirk could be considered a victory, or sorts... Assuming that you don't account for the loss of the equipment, the half a dozen destroyers etc. Dunkirk should be remembered for the "Irregular Navy" of civilian boats that made the withdrawal possible.

Oh and by the way, when the French leadership asked the USA to enter the war, they were told to fuck off

The US was not interested in fighting a way in Europe. In fact, the US had an isolationist policy which meant that the US was only looking after US interests, and lead (I believe) to the attacks on Pearl Harbour in December 1941. -Until that point, the US had rebuffed everyone's attempts to get them involved in the war in Europe.

The USA would not enter that war until they were themselves attacked years later

I wouldn't say that 18 months is "years" personally...

US history books are of course chock full of references to French (who declared war on Hitler) appeasement of Hitler

The appeasement policy was an approach taken by most of Europe, including the UK, the French and the Belgians in order to prevent war breaking out in Europe.

I recommend reading some of these books:

Hope this helps.

Bigglesworth_

When Germany invaded France their armoured forces punched through the Ardennes region, reaching the Channel coast near Abbeville on the 20th May after only ten days and encircling the Allied 1st Army Group that included the British Expeditionary Force (BEF). Allied forces were in disarray; Gamelin, the French Supreme Commander, had just been replaced by Weygand and the British War Cabinet ordered Gort, commander of the BEF, to attack to the south-west, but heavily engaged against German Army Group B (the anvil to the hammer of Army Group A) this was impossible.

Weygand convened a conference in Ypres on 21st May to co-ordinate with French, Belgian and British forces and plan a counter-attack to break through the encirclement. Billotte, commander of the 1st Army Group, was late and mortally injured in a car crash after returning to his headquarters; Gort could not be reached until after Weygand left Ypres and they never spoke. The plan was for an attack to be launched on 26th May, 1st Army Group attacking south-west and a newly formed French army pushing north-east, but was hopeless from the start, requiring repositioning and co-ordination between disorganised and weakened French, Belgian and British forces. Churchill, unaware of the numerous difficulties, was enthusiastic. Gort was completely unconvinced, and with the situation deteriorating ordered a withdrawal of the BEF towards the Channel ports on 23rd May to secure his line, disobeying Weygard's orders without referring to London who would not have countenanced the action. Weygand used this as a pretext to cancel the attack, casting Gort as scapegoat for the failure. At that point the BEF had no option but to retreat and attempt to evacuate, with Dunkirk the only option after the fall of Boulogne with Calais under siege.

There is, therefore, a nub of truth in Churchill's assurances of continued support not being reflected by Gort's (independent) actions, but the original post is appallingly skewed. The Battle for France and Flanders: Sixty Years On is a collection of essays with three on the History and Historiography of the Battle from the French, German and British views that are helpful for understanding how the events are presented; the "Miracle of Dunkirk" has been mythologised by many in Britain, glossing over the defeat, whereas a popular French view is of "Perfidious Albion" abandoning their allies as exemplified by the original post, neither terribly helpful or accurate.