Friday Free-for-All | July 28, 2017

by AutoModerator

Previously

Today:

You know the drill: this is the thread for all your history-related outpourings that are not necessarily questions. Minor questions that you feel don't need or merit their own threads are welcome too. Discovered a great new book, documentary, article or blog? Has your Ph.D. application been successful? Have you made an archaeological discovery in your back yard? Did you find an anecdote about the Doge of Venice telling a joke to Michel Foucault? Tell us all about it.

As usual, moderation in this thread will be relatively non-existent -- jokes, anecdotes and light-hearted banter are welcome.

DrMCNicholls

You may have seen a flare-up on Twitter with InfoWars editor Paul Joseph Watson accusing the BBC of historical inaccuracy regarding Romans in Britain.

I was approached by my University's Press Office to write a response from an expert perspective, which I did.

It's proven fairly popular today.

I initially wasn't sure whether to respond but I'm glad that I did and I was heartened to see how Twitter has responded to both the original tweet and my blog.

When you see bad history like this, do you prefer to come in swinging and argue to the death, or do you choose to ignore it?

Dr Matthew Nicholls

stakkalee

Thanks to the recommendations on this sub I've read a few interesting books recently, namely '1491' by Charles Mann and '1177 B.C.' by Eric Cline (both excellent and informative books for anyone wondering) which are about the 'end' of precolonial America and the late Bronze age respectively. I'm really interested in the idea of historical discontinuities, those moments in time where we can look back and say "This is when everything changed." I realize defining those moments is inherently arbitrary, and that choosing a specific date for when a certain empire or age ended is often for little more reason than "Well, we have to put it somewhere...", but I'm curious about other moments in history that can be or have been defined as 'the end of an era' and I was hoping the members of this sub might be able to point me to some other times when "the world would never be the same," along with some book recommendations about those moments so I can really dive in on my own! Thanks to the mods and contributors for maintaining such an awesome sub!

Casiphoner

Since Medieval Europeans didn't have barbecue sauce, how did they eat baby back ribs?

DBHT14

Picked up an older edition of The Caine Mutiny last week at a used book store near Eastern Market in DC.

I had read the book at the suggestion of a NROTC LT way back in college and loved it, and have fallen back in love with the book all over and tore through it in a week!

If anyone wants an honest look at what service aboard a ship can really be like its 100% worth a read. Hell there is a reason its routinely one of the most suggested books even on r/Navy! Its the tale of a young officer who seeks a naval commission to avoid service in the Army and ends up on an old WW1 era destroyer converted into a minesweeper, and his career aboard her under 3 very different captains. They even made a movie about it with Bogart as the central Captain Queeg.

NientedeNada

I haven't been around on this sub much for the last couple weeks bc I've been on vacation (yey!). One highlight of my recent trip to Vancouver was the Museum of Anthropology on UBC campus. I'd been before, but a lot of it was under renovation, and I did not realize how large their collections are past the hall with totem poles, house fronts, ceremonial feast dishes etc. and the Bill Reid sculptures/jewelry. Those are amazing, but I hadn't yet seen their larger world-wide collections on display.

The MoA is justly famous for its relationship with indigenous stakeholders, and many famous West coast native artists and traditional craftspeople have and continue to be very involved with the museum. It's so refreshing to see every artifact presented in the context of the actual people, and how they don't draw an artificial line between "old stuff" and "new stuff" in the same living cultural traditions. The museum's larger collection, of course, includes stuff from the last two centuries of anthropological collection, some of which was stripped of that context, and I was very interested at how the museum highlights that loss in some of its displays.

I was traveling with teenage siblings, so I'd tacked the museum on as a short visit after doing other more "exciting-sounding" things, but it ended up being their favourite thing as well, and we all could have spent hours there.

And if you're an Indigenous person btw, it's free admission. Which I didn't realize till after I'd paid for us, could have got in for free since we're Metis, but it didn't bother me to support the museum anyway. However, it's worth knowing if this is your position, that you don't need to pay for admission.

ThesaurusRex84

So, I guess might be a little weird, and I've forgotten some details over the years. Not really a historian but I've been trying to learn. In 2013 I was trying to search a claim an elk farming website made in passing, and came across some odd stuff.

I found a group of similarly-worded (plagiarized?) stories from the early 1800s that mention Native Americans near the Great Lakes region capturing young elk and raising them to pull sleds.

I forget which one I found the first, but this was the earliest mention I could find, from Volume 48 of the Philosophical Magazine in 1816:

The persons who have charge of these animals state, that a German naturalist, who had been employed several years in exploring that part of Louisiana, called the Upper Missouri country, brought them from thence over-land to Baltimore, where, as well as at Philadelphia and New York, they were exhibited for money.

They are in their nature very timid, and at the same time of such power and activity when grown, that it is not possible fb take them out of the forest alive; but some remote tribes of Indians having discovered that they were susceptible of domestication, and of being trained to draw their sledges in winter over the snow and ice, took them when fawns in nets, and brought them up in their houses with great care and kindness, thus depriving them of their wild habits, and making them at last of great value and importance for their services in harness.

They all kind of have the same introduction and mention the handbill of the same unnamed German naturalist. There is also a similar passage by Benjamin Smith Barton in 1804, which I'm currently unsure is the original source of those stories:

The Elk might be rendered a very useful animal. When he is taken young, he is easily tamed, becoming an inoffensive and easily manageable creature. It is said, these animals have been used in sleighs, like the rein-deer, in some parts of Upper-Canada. I cannot learn, that our Indians have ever domesticated any of them. There is, however, a circumstance mentioned by Adair, which would, at least, lead one to suppose that the Indians, in some parts of America, have actually seen the Elk in a domesticated state. Some of the southern tribes call this animal Hissooba, which signifies "the horse that carries a burthen." This, as Adair observes, suggests the idea, "that they formerly saw Elks carry burthens." Perhaps, the Indians may have seen the Elk employed, as a beast of burthen, by the Spaniards, to the west of the Mississippi. If the Alcos of New-Mexico be our Elk, as I suppose it is, this suspicion is rendered more probable: for we are told, that that animal has been trained to the chariot, instead of the horse.

He doesn't go much beyond 'it is said' for the elk, but then mentions James Adair mentioning something about pack-elk, which may or may not even go anywhere because I took a break at about that point.

I had originally discussed this on an alternate history forum in 2013 and you can see more details of my fumbling attempts here. Please note that this was around the same time I had begun a serious interest in history and archaeology so there's bound to be a couple mistakes in...the process.

I'd always planned to get back to it some day and never got around to it, but I figured if someone more knowledgeable has heard about this before they could do a better job explaining what's going on.

andromedamountains

Did the pros of bombing Dresden outweigh the cons? The war was nearly over at this point, so why?

louielabarbe

Could I get advice on the historicity of a piece of art I'm sketching out? I'm working on a piece of fan art for the new assassin's creed origins where the main character, Bayek, is protecting Ma'at and Amun from an in-game antagonist dressed as Anubis. The "Anubis impostor" is holding a Piece of Eden (from the game) and stole the Djed pillar. I made the decision to have Bayek protect Ma'at and Amun because Bayek is from the Siwa Oasis where the Oracle of Amun was located, but I want to know if 1. this is smart/correct 2. I could do something to improve its mythological aspects. Thanks,

thats-what-we-need

Does anyone here know any history regarding cannabis or hemp?

Casiphoner

I once read that while he was filming Goldfinger, Sean Connery said the Beatles were unlistenable. Is this true?

GoddamnIslander

Does anyone know how to say "for the glory of Rome" in ancient Greek (what they spoke in the Byzantine empire?)

Dled70

If the UK monarch is above the law (it's a bit unclear) could Queen Elizabeth take power with a coup or at least attempt to without being charged with treason?

I know it's a stupid question and has to do with modern times

ngc6205

Would prominent Romans like Julius Caesar do all their fighting with a "standard-issue" gladius, or would they have special weapons?

RonUSMC

I've listened to Dan Carlin's Wrath of the Khans a few times now and I would really love a book recommendation on some of Genghis' battles. Any that involve first person accounts, etc.

Gankom

So this a question aimed towards the subs crusader-era kingdom experts. I've read (a few times) a book called Dungeon, Fire and Sword: The Knights Templar in the Crusades by John J. Robinson. It's suppose to be a historical look at the Templars, although it veers around a bit to talk about the rest of the crusader states. It's also suppose to ignore the more conspiracy or mystic stuff and focus on historical facts. I thought it was pretty good in that regard, but I recently found out the authors main works are all historical ish books on the history of the masons and how the Templars tied into that. It made me a little unsure how actually historical his stuff is.

So experts, had anyone read Dungeon, Fire and Sword? Is it accurate?

Corohr

What is the most oddly specific historical subject you've seen a Historian have expertise in?