How did the Ancient Greeks perceive the Spartans before the 300 at the Battle of Thermopylae?

by GoldAuFTW

We all know the Spartans to be the most formidable soldiers to ever walk the planet thanks to pop culture and that every mid-twenties man who has ever been to the gym likes to call themselves one, but the main reason I ask is because of my understanding of The Iliad and it's context. It's been a while since I read it but don't remember any sort of description of Lacedeamon and much less King Menelaus as upholding this archetype, especially as his brother King Agamemnon of Mycenae was the hot-tempered leader of the Greeks against Troy, and while Achilles, the greatest warrior of his time was admittedly a mythical Myrmidon from Thesally, you can't get much geographically farther away from each other within ancient Greece before you're in Macedon or Thrace.

One thing I can think of is the wars with and subsequent oppression of their surrounding people and especially Messenia. This as well as their use of helots for manual labour certainly shows a particular cruelty in their society, which certainly says something when all of the Ancient Greek world practiced slavery, but the idea of such a slave-centric society would make me sooner guess that the aristocracy was lazy and luxurious, not the bulk of a standing professional army known for eating a famously disgusting black grool.

And as a sidenote, I believe Menelaus is portrayed as the only ruler but we know from Xenophon, Thucydides and the like of the system of two Kings. Is there any light to be shone on this change aswell?

Thank you!

Iphikrates

What Period of Spartan History Are You From?

Take this quiz to find out whether you're a luxurious-living warrior-poet of the Early Archaic period or a stoic humourless sociopath of the Roman era!

  1. When I'm not out fighting wars, I like to...

    A. Dedicate little statuettes or recite poetry with my mates

    B. Go hunting or watch the dancing contest

    C. Hurt children to see how tough they are

  2. How do you like your Messenians?

    A. Defeated would be nice. We've been fighting them for decades.

    B. Enslaved and humiliated, like the ones on my estate.

    C. Returned to righteous subjection, like in the good old days!

  3. Who's your greatest hero from all of Spartan history?

    A. I dunno, probably Alkamenes who led us against Ithome

    B. LEONIDAS

    C. Lykourgos, our legendary lawgiver, who designed the perfect state.

  4. If someone were to rank the Greek states, on which point would Sparta be first?

    A. Our women are the most beautiful of all Greece!

    B. We are the most pious of all Greeks, and always keep our oaths.

    C. We are the bravest, toughest, most obedient!

  5. An enemy army approaches! How do you respond?

    A. Quick, sing our fighting songs, so that each man will be eager to march ahead of the mass and face them!

    B. We form into a well-ordered formation and await the word of our commander.

    C. I talk a big game but I haven't actually fought anyone in ages

  6. Man, those Athenians, huh?

    A. Who are you even talking about?

    B. Spluttering rage

    C. I heard they can read, that's pretty cool

  7. A Greek writer wants to learn about Sparta. How do you respond?

    A. What, like a poet? More songs! We love songs.

    B. We won't tell him anything, and even if we do, he won't understand us.

    C. I hope he brought enough papyrus because I'm going to tell him all about how awesome we are. Has he taken the tour?

  8. So, Spartans, where do you come from?

    A. How do you mean? Like, from my house?

    B. We are the descendants of the sons of Herakles, who came to claim dominion over Peloponnesos.

    C. Well, Homer speaks of Menelaos of Sparta, but then there's the thing with the Herakleidai... It's all pretty confusing

  9. Who rules the Spartans?

    A. The two kings and the noble council of elders.

    B. The ephors, who can bring even kings to trial.

    C. Whoever the Romans like, pretty much

  10. How do you feel about city walls?

    A. I mean we're just a bunch of villages that are pretty far apart so it's not worth it

    B. Walls are for weaklings! We fight in the fields!

    C. Turns out, actually, walls are pretty neat

 

I got mostly "A"

You're a Spartan of the Archaic period! All that stuff about great warriors and legendary heroes is a bit much for you. You just want to chill in your native Lakedaimon and have nice temples and jewellery like the other Greeks. If the Messenians would only acquiesce to your rule, you could all go back to living the good life and composing songs about pretty girls.

 

I got mostly "B"

You're a Spartan of the Classical period! You grew up on the tale of Thermopylai. You know what true Spartans are made of; you know all Greeks fear you. You are one of a wealthy elite that lives the best life because it knows when to prioritise the safety of the community over its own well-being. You rule Sparta at its richest and most powerful, and carefully cultivate the image of unflinching discipline that made it all possible.

 

I got mostly "C"

You're a Spartan of the Late Hellenistic/Roman period! Your city has fallen from grace and is now a shadow of its former self. All you have left is your reputation - but boy, do you cling to it. Your customs get ever more harsh and cruel; as foreigners come to gaze in wonder at the legend that was Sparta, you dive deep into your own myth. No more luxuries for you, no more frivolities; you live a life of brutality and self-denial, in which the only thing that matters is proving your indifference to suffering. But your legend rings hollow. Sparta is irrelevant now, and has been for centuries. All you are is a tourist attraction. Lighten up, dude.

 


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