Hi all!
We are a panel of regular contributors to /r/askhistorians here to discuss and answer questions about multiculturalism and empire. The title is a paraphrasing of the Roman poet Martial's Liber De Spectacularis, in which he exalts the far reach of the Empire and its ability to draw diverse peoples from the furthest reaches of the world to its capital. The exact quote is: "Quae tam seposita est, quae gens tam barbara, Caesar, ex qua spectator non sit in urbe tua?"/"What nation is so distant that from it no spectator is present in thy city?"
The theme of this panel can be interpreted in a variety of ways but includes the cultural influences of imperialism, the cross-cultural exchanges that occur within and without empires, and the creation of cultural identity in relation to the influences of imperialism.
/u/drylaw has written an excellent introduction to the history of empire and how we study it:
In some ways, mankind's history can be understood as the history of empires. This may seem improbable in our time of nation states -- but as Frederick Cooper has argued, nations have only really started becoming predominant globally following World War II, with the British and French empires' increasing decolonization. For Cooper "imperial polities—“old” and “new”—constituted a system in which any serious competitor for geopolitical influence had to think and act like an empire" (Colonialism in Question, p. 154). The ubiquity of empires since antiquity makes a look into parallels and differences between imperial traditions in different periods and parts of the world -- inside and outside of Europe -- especially fascinating.
How did empires treat the manifold ethnic and religious groups they inevitably encompassed? According to C.A. Bayly, keeping native elites in power has long been the norm rather than the exception following imperial conquests. Often imperial control receded in varying degrees with increasing distance from the imperial centres, which could prove to be a key influence on the respective empires' longevity. What is more, the start of unprecedented colonial expansion since the 16th century necessitated new legitimisations from the European colonial powers. The frictions inherent in ruling over population groups living oceans away shaped negotiations between metropoles and their imperial peripheries, between the colonial ruling classes and indigenous populations -- leading to complex formations of racial and socio-economic exclusion that prove highly influential until today.
Imperialism does not have to be all about conquest either! Economic, religious, and cultural domination are just as relevant to the discourse on imperialism. For instance, we might talk about the impact that European colonialism had on interactions between Native American tribes, the economic and cultural facets of Sino-European warfare, the syncretism of foreign religious traditions, or the impact that Bronze Age trade had on the exchange of ideas in the ancient world.
Without further ado, here are the panelists:
/u/Bentresh Late Bronze Age | Egypt and Ancient Near East – Specializing in ancient Egypt and the Bronze Age Near East.
/u/cleopatra_philopater Moderator | Hellenistic Egypt – Specializing in Hellenistic imperialism in the Near East and North Africa, particularly in regards to the Ptolemaic Kingdom. I also have an interest in cultural exchange in the Eastern Mediterranean during the Hellenistic and Roman periods.
/u/CommodoreCoco Moderator | Mesoamerica & Early Andes |Historical Linguistics - Specializing in the history of the Andean empires, as well as cultural interactions in colonial South America.
/u/drylaw Native Authors of Colonial Mexico | Early Spanish America - Specializing in native authors of central colonial Mexico and their relations to the pre-Hispanic past. Interests include the early Spanish empire in the Americas - especially race relations - and intellectual history.
/u/EnclavedMicrostate Taiping Rebellion – Specializing in the Qing Dynasty, with particular emphasis on the Taiping Rebellion.
/u/LordHussyPants Racial History | New Zealand - Specializing in Empire and Maori in the 19th-20th Centuries.
/u/rakony Mongols in Iran - Specializing in cosmopolitanism and its limits in colonial Malaysia.
/u/snapshot52 Moderator | Native American Studies | Colonialism – My field of study primarily concerns contemporary Native American issues and cultures as they have developed since the colonization of the Americas. This includes the history of specific Tribes (such as my Tribe, the Nez Perce), the history of interactions between Tribes and the United States, and the effects of colonialism in the Americas. Additionally, my interests include the areas of genocide studies and cultural clashes between the Indigenous and Western worlds. I research areas of federal Indian law/policy, political science, and Indigenous philosophy.
Now on to the questions!
Addressed at all participants: how did central cities reflect the diversity that was present in your respective region? Were capital cities home to representatives of various ethnicities, religions, and languages? Or were urban spaces the domain of particular groups?
We popularly think of empires exerting total hegemonic control over their lands, but power ebbs and flows over time. For any of the panelists, what are some of your favorite examples of negotiating and accommodating imperial control in your area?
To what extent was there a Jewish diaspora in the Graeco-Roman world before the year 70? How were Jewish communities treated, and how connected were these communities to each other and to Hasmonean Israel?
Rogers Brubaker has a very influential article called “The Aftermaths of Empire and the Unmixing of Peoples”. The abstract is this:
This article provides a historical and comparative analysis of post‐imperial migrations of ethnic unmixing. It examines the post‐Soviet migration of ethnic Russians to Russia in the light of the migrations of other once‐dominant ‘new minorities’ engendered by transitions from multinational empire to incipient nation‐states: Balkan Muslims during and after the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, Hungarians after the collapse of the Habsburg Empire, and Germans after the collapse of the Habsburg Empire and the German Kaiserreich.
One thing that strongly characterized the “end of empire” and their transformation from multiethnic realms to nation-states is this “unmixing of people”. It’s astonishing that Vienna today is smaller than it was in 1910 (whereas similar cities like Paris, Berlin, Rome, London, Budapest, Prague have all grown). Why? Because so many Czechs, Hungarians, Slovenians, etc went “home” after the dissolution of the Empire.
Two separate questions: now, we are seeing a “remixing” of people through global immigrations flows, notably to Europe and the Americas. What lessons does empire have for these multiethnic non-imperial states?
Second, what happens in places where empire ends without such an “unmixing”? There are political science articles arguing statistically that violence is not related to ethnic mixture (Fearon and Laitin, “Ethnicity, Insurgency, and Civil War”) but instead to things like ethnic exclusion from government and power (Cederman, Wimmer, Min, “Why Do Ethnic Groups Rebel? New Data and Analysis“). Are there other lessons to be had about what “do” with post-imperial states?
To /u/Bentresh, what is the present consensus (or lack thereof) surrounding the late bronze age collapse in the near east circa 1200 BC? I've read several popular history books but would like to know what academics think on the subject. Also, why do you think Egypt survived while the rest of the states in the region did not?
A question for u/EnclavedMicrostate
How did the environment and especially natural catastrophes influence Chinese imperial policies leading up the Taiping rebellion? Charles C. Mann discusses in "1493" how American foods like sweet potatoes and maize were planted in China from the 16th c. onwards, leading to massive forced migrations and floodings in later centuries under the Qing (he sums up recent research on this). This is clearly a huge topic, so anything on how e.g. floodings or food shortages might have shaped the period directly before the Taiping rebellion would be great.
For /u/rakony:
How cosmopolitan was colonial Malaysia, and what did this cosmopolitanism look like?
For anyone: What were some of the social and cultural values that ended up being shared between the West and the East before 1,000 A.D. through the Silk Road?
Edit: Not just between Europe and China, but everywhere in-between as well.
Does the Achaemenid Persian Empire deserve the credit it has been given for ruling with tolerance and respect for the cultures of the people living in their empire, or is it possible that this was exaggerated by the Persians for PR purposes?
A question for /u/LordHussyPants:
You hear a lot about the racist and oppressive mentality of European colonials in Australia, how did the imperial rhetoric of the government of New Zealand compare?
Also:
In what ways did Maori culture influence the mainstream culture of the country of New Zealand?
A few things for /u/cleopatra_philopater:
The Ptolemy royals often seem to be depicted as a Hellenistic dynasty that 'went native' in adopting Egyptian customs and culture. Some depictions suggest a more enthusiastic exoticism in comparison to the other Hellenistic rulers of the Near East.
Do we know how the Ptolemys viewed themselves? Was a Greek ancestry an important pillar of their identity? Did any members of the family look to shed a Hellenistic background and more fully embrace the identities of their Egyptian subjects?
Additionally, do we know how the Egyptian noble classes (in other words, the ones who would have been in contact and interaction with the Ptolemy house) reacted to the dynastys adoptation of their customs?
To all participants, as experts of any region or period:
I've often heard that the core/periphery lens through which Empire is viewed has been subject to great changes in historiography. What do these changes look like? What are the alternatives?
/u/CommodoreCoCo, how were smaller kingdoms integrated/absorbed into the Inca Empire? Turning back the clock, how did pre-Inca Andean states incorporate new cultures as they expanded?
"What land is so distant, that from it no spectator is present in thy city?"
So what's the quote from, please?
For /u/LordHussyPants - was there ever an equivalent of a formal/informal 'White New Zealand' policy in place? If so, how did it work?
For /u/Bentresh: Egypt controlled the Levantine coast from 1550 to 1100, according to Wikipedia. What did this 400 year period of Egyptian rule actually look like for the people there? Was it simply that the Kings of the local countries paid them tribute and supported them against the Hittites, or did Egyptians live there and affect the local culture?
This question is for /u/snapshot52.
Would you, please, recommend some introductory and advanced readings for the Penobscot Nation?
For all: For each of your respective empires which, if any, public goods did the state deem most important to provide. Modern day American examples being Medicare and Medicaid, free public education, and disability benefits.
To /u/cleopatra_philopater, to what extent did the Greek and Egyptian populations in Ptolemaic Egypt merge? Did the new Greek nobility marry members of the old Egyptian nobility to gain legitimacy? Was it more that the Egyptian population become Hellenised, or that the Greek nobility become Egyptianised?
Also, I have heard that there was an attempt to merge the Greek and Egyptian pantheons, how successful were these attempts?
To all panel participants, how useful do you think are transhistorical categories like Bonacich and Blalock’s “middleman minorities” (i.e. “market dominant minorities”, like the Jews in much of European, Greeks and Jews in much of the Ottoman Empire, Overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia), Hayden and Nemeth’s “service nomads” (most famously the Rromani in Europe and the Middle East, but also groups like the so-called “Sea Gypsies” [Moken] in Southeast Asia and Jewish peddlers in Eastern Europe among others), and Spivak’s “subaltern” (groups with “limited or no access to the cultural imperialism”, people “outside the hegemonic discourse”, who barely even appear in colonial records)?
Is categorizing groups in multiethnic empires across time and space a useful activity? If so, what other categories exist that you find useful for undertstanding the contexts you look at? If not, what is useful about thinking about “empire” and “imperialism” rather than just “an empire” or “a period of imperialism”?
Hey guys thanks for doing this. Always love a bit of question prodding.
Adressed to all
What would you say quantifies an Empire? How would you define it?
In ancient multiethnic empires, did the ruling classes expect the lower classes to take on the former's cultural identity in order to be considered citizens?
For example, Saul of Tarsus famously changed his name to a Roman name when he became a citizen of Rome. Was this required?
I ask because nowadays a common sentiment among some American whites is that black people are treated badly because they didn't assimilate. Does this view have any historical basis?
" Imperialism does not have to be all about conquest either! "
I don't understand this statement. Unless a country loses its sovereignty, the imperium(power to command) is still theirs.
Question for /u/cleopatra_philopater
Was Egypt Hellenized at all by the time that the Ptolemies became the rulers of Egypt? And if not, what factors made the Ptolemaic Dynasty successful in Hellenizing Egypt, a nation/society that had such a long standing history and culture of its own?
After all, Egypt was sort of the China of the Ancient World. A long continuous civilization with history, culture, politics, and religion which even to the people of the Ptolemaic Kingdom was old.
/u/Snapshot52, in A Misplaced Massacre, Kelman contextualized the U.S. Civil War by looking east from Indian Country as war of imperialism, fought to decide the slave-holding status of the West, with the assumption of to the victor goes the God-given spoils, naturally without regard for the original inhabitants. Growing up in the east, I never thought of the Civil War in such a manner.
Do you think this perspective is helpful in understanding US Indian Policy during and immediately after the war? Does it mesh with the lived experience of nations in the West, as well as the rhetoric of justification used to cover horrendous atrocities?
Can you sum up what the beginning of what we call "the Bronze Age" looked like?
Where did the innovations begin, how did they spread? Conquest, collaboration, deliberate empire building?
I'm sorry if this is vague and feel free to interpret or re-interpret my question but I think I'm driving at the incredible rate of innovation must have been mind-blowing at the time and its spread equally so.
u/cleopatra_philopter would probably be best: how did the Parthian and Sassanian states treat the Hellenic and Hellenized former ruling classes in Iran and Mesopotamia? Is it more complex than the Parthians incorporated Greek culture while the Sassanians stamped it out?
A few questions about the relationship between liberalism, multiculturalism, and empire to all the panelists.