Besides Thucydides, what sources do historians draw on in order to form an image of these battles?

Also, have anyone found weapons, armor and other remains that are definitively from these battles?

I'm currently teaching this in a very simplified way to a class of 8 and 9 year olds. We are only really exploring the war because of their curiosity, but they are ridiculously enthusiastic about our Topic of Ancient Greece and have fractured into two factions who prefer either Sparta or Athens. Are there any great (suitable!) facts you would share with this age group? This whole thread has been great so thank you!

No one ever talks about Thebes, why not?

What kind of roles would women have had related to the war? Would they be nurses, laborers, weapon-makers, soldiers, etc?

Socrates was noted for his bravery in the war. After the end of the war, he purported to side with the Spartans in the way they ruled Athens. In what ways did Athenian culture change when do the war? And did Spartan culture also change?

How much of naval combat was ship on ship actions like ramming? There were obviously people on the vessels but how much of an impact did archers, marines, etc. play in the grand scheme of a battle?

Are there any actual records of giant melees in battles that weren’t a rout? That’s always the go-to to look cool in movies and games but breaking formation historically seems to have never ended well.

How (in your opinion) could have Athens won the war? Or what mistakes did Athens make that stopped them from winning?

Why did Sparta refuse to destroy Athens? Was it a sense of honor or something else?

Which is your favorite: Sparta or Athens?

How did the plague of Athens affect the war? I can only imagine how badly it affected Athenian morale and leadership.

Everytime Athens and Sparta are represented in media, we see their citizens, soldiers, and ships outfitted in blue and red garb, respectively. How accurate is this, if at all?

Oh my god yes thank you so much, an egyptologist did an AMA for origins last year and it was fantastic. My question is about the armor they would have worn. In game the basic Athenian soldiers look accurate enough except for using a spear instead of a sword, but the Spartans are only wearing a helmet with a spear. What armor was generally used by the sides? Thank you for doing this.

What did they do with booty? Was loot a free-for-all or did the generals claim a significant share?

I mean, i's only tangentially connected, but we've heard the rough descriptions of Athens as this center of culture, and Sparta as this rough and tumble, fight to survive world, but to what extent was this real, and to what extent was this stereotyping by other Greek city states? Were there other stereotypes for other city states that have been recorded? Were stereotypes such as these utilized in propaganda to make the war seem righteous? Or was the mentality of the time, "They have stuff, we want it," and that was all?

I guess this is not about the Peloponnesian War, hope that is okay.

You mentioned here fairly recently that all the examples of battles by champions and duels deciding conflicts in Greek warfare were mythical or semi-mythical and a historian, Dayton, believes such forms of combat "may have been a real attempt to reduce the human cost of war".

Reading that answer now, I am reminded of parallels in East Asia which I wrote about here, in which duels were common place, or even played a central role, in historical fiction, where as the evidence in reality is that while the commander and his guards might have lead the charge, duels were rare exceptions and seldom decided anything.

I believe similar theories were once believed in European warfare as well that have since been rejected: knights only fighting duels (they did not), or fighting was confined to the knightly class to lessen the human cost on society (ignoring conscripting and raids the burnt and pillaged everything), classical fighting only decisive battles to lessen casualties and material damage (you frequently pick this appart), etc.

So for my part, not being an expert on Greek Warfare but seeing parallels elsewhere in history and historiography, I am more inclined to just dismiss the entire thing as fiction, and that while champions and their guards might have led the charge, duels, even in the mythical and archaic ages, were extremely rare and cases when they decided something even rarer.

Are there historians of Classical Greek warfare of this same belief, and what do you think about this hypothesis?

EDIT: Just to actually add a question on the Peloponnesian War:

The war ended when Sparta, the self-acclaimed leader of all the Greeks against the Persians, who continues to use this as justification for Spartan leadership, acquired funding from the Persians for a fleet to match the Athenians so they can finally challenge the Athenians at sea.

How did Lysander convince the conservative Spartans to allow such an action, and was there any pushback from within Sparta itself or from the rest of Greece against this hypocrisy?

How realistic are the same-sex romance scenes in the game?

https://ew.com/gaming/2018/10/09/assassins-creed-odyssey-lgbtq/

How much money did a soldier make of that era, and was the pay different for type of soldiers?

How good were the Spartan millitary in reality? I know Hollywood and the media loves to portray them as amazing superhumans. But I've read that their milliary prowess was greatly exaggerated and that they were just better than average due to their more regular training, and that they didn't might not even have had the best hoplites in Greece.

Any books you recommend?

i have a question though not on warfare unfortunately, the game has a lot of underwater and offshore ruins some of which are named others not. for example one such being a sunken temple to Aphrodite

my question is were ruins like these real or are they more elements to populate the game world

Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey has you play as a mercenary.

In real life, what were the roles that mercenaries played in the Peloponnesian War? Were they very prominent, and was anyone especially noteworthy?

Creasy listed the Battle of Syracuse as one of the 15 most decisive battles in history. How important was the battle to the overall defeat of Athens? And, given that Athens is today the capital of Greece while most people don't even know where Sparta is (and today it's basically a small town), does it deserve to be included?

In Greek tales taking place during battles like the story of Troy, it often has someone stop fighting so they could retrieve the body of the person they killed

Would this really happen back then

Alcibiades is one of my favorite historical figures who gets no love (though probably deservingly) in most history classes I’ve taken. What are some interesting parts of his life/influence that get overlooked even by people familiar with him?

What single fact about the Peloponnesian war is unknown but you would give up your little toe to know the answer?

All thing considered (training, armament, leadership, etc.), how capable was the Theban black band compared to the run-of-the-mill Spartan hoplite? And were Athenian hoplites as shit as everyone says?

P.S.: Not to gush but you are exactly what I want to be when I finish school.

When I think of Ancient Greece, I tend to think of it as "European", and it's neighboring powers of Persia and Egypt as "Non-European". But after reading some posts on AH it seems like they were far more interconnected than I thought, and that the idea of Ancient Greece being "European" and Persia being "not European" is a modern narrative that tries to trace "Western Civilization" to the ancients. Would it make more sense, then, to think of the entire Greece/Near East/Egypt region as a "Eastern Mediterranean" region, rather than dividing it up into "Europe/Asia/Africa" regions?

Do we know what actually physically happened when two phalanx came together in battle? You have long lines of men with long spears but it seems there is a great deal in attention placed on the push forward. How were they able to actually bring shield to shield pushing on each other with a 6, 8, or 10 ft spear poking out in front of them?

What was the cause of the war? Was there a single moment like there was for WWI? or was it just a build up between Athens and Sparta?

I'm afraid I've got more than one question:

1. During the Peace of Nicias, was there at all a sense of a continuing state of 'cold war' with Sparta, if you will, or was it genuinely believed that there would be a lasting settlement?

2. Do we know anything of how the other Greek states reacted to Sparta obtaining Persian support, and if this had any bearing on the Thermopylae myth?

3. How much of a contribution did Sparta make relative to its allies in terms of manpower and material support? Were they simply the nexus around which the alliance revolved? Did this differ between the Archidamian and Decelean wars?

Are there any good sources you would recommend about the athenian navy in the 5th century BCE in general? (I‘m writing a relatively short paper about it for my ancient greek course)

Thank you very much!

Can you speak to Macedons importance/influence in the earlier days of the Peleponnesian league? I have always wondered how relatively powerful they were considered to be in the pre-Phillip/Alexander days. And did their military organization have any distinguishing features (compared to to the other greek city states) before Phillip implemented his reforms?

Thank you for this.

• My understanding is that Donald Kagan is the goto historian for this setting. Do you agree?

• Many people call Thucydides the first articulation of realpolitik, but a running theme I sense in his History is an unabashed appreciation for the ideals that Pericles espoused. Do you think Thucydides "bought" these ideals (and Athenian manifest destiny), or saw them as propaganda?

• My friend once joked that the Greeks never recovered from the Peloponnesian War. Is there any merit in that?

What was the likelihood of a warrior fighting without a shield in the era?

Not on the topic of warfare but if someone else knows about this I would like to know the answer to a different question. In the game there are sidequests from hetaera, did they really differ from the pornai significantly in how they were viewed by society?

What in the world were the Spartan's thinking at Sphacteria?

What role did cavalry play in battles, and in what capacity did their role change over the course of the war.

Were dogs involved at all in this war? If so approximately how many?

The Peloponnesian War is a staple in the poli sci / international relations literature as an example of the problems that arise when a rising power challenges an established power (also known as the Thucydides trap), and it's commonly used to draw parallels between the US and China today.

What kinds of lessons did Thucydides' contemporaries take away from his account of the war? As a historian who studied the war in detail, would you agree with the basic premise that the war was primarily caused by a shift in the balance of power between Athens and Sparta?

Were hoplites still the core of greek armies at this point?

I read that Persia supported Sparta at the end of the war. What was the strategical benefit of them helping Sparta? Why did Sparta use them despite their past?

One of your answers indicated the lack of physical evidence so, presumably, few "new finds" in archaeology are going to pop up to change the discourse of your field of study. First, is that assumption correct? If so (or in spite of it), other than trends in theory for warfare, like the dreaded Hoplite debate, where do you foresee new evidence or methodology to further the discourse in your field springing from? Will reenactment studies play a bigger role later on or will they continue to be mired with bickering?

Related to that question, with scarce physical evidence are army sizes, logistical analyses of campaigns, and strategic movements of troops, like on those pretty battle phase maps that we see in pop history books, mostly conjecture and taking source material at face value?

And lastly, thank you for taking time to do this. Even though it is a passion of yours, it is still very time consuming and many people appreciate that sacrifice.

I've seen depictions of Spartan warriors with a lambda glyph on their shield, presumably for "Laconia". How common was this, and did the warriors from other city states follow this practice?

What's the general opinion in the academy of Victor Davis Hanson's work?

I'm aware that the backbone of the greek armies at the time were made out of citizens acting as hoplites, peltasts and such, however, I am also aware that the greeks were pretty big on slavery, my question is:

What roles, if any, would a slave fill on a greek army? Would they receive any benefits participating in the war effort?

In your opinion which of the Greek City states was the most powerful in terms of military and economic prowess? I know most people think of Sparta when it comes warfare but in truth was it another?

How exaggerated are army numbers in ancient history? Numbers in the hundred thousands seem unfeasible for the time, so were they really that big? Thanks in advance!

What impact did this war have on later events like the conquest of the Macedonians? Did this war set the stage for that in some ways like how WW1 set the stage for WW2?

I've heard that Corinth is the most able on naval warfare amongst Sparta's ally. If that true, how did they fare against Athenian navy ?

I'm a simple man, I hear "Sparta" and I automatically think "one of the world's best military nations in all of history.

My question(s): How far is this from the truth? Were Spartans actually the world's greatest soldiers at the time?

What were the biggest battles during the war? I know that the siege of Athens was a turning point (due to the plague from grain) but other than that what else?

How, and how much, was military intelligence used? Were people convicted of spying often? Were people's movements curtailed in the presence of an occupation? Travel papers issued? Who utilized intelligence more? Etc...

Hi u/Iphikrates My question is: Was there an actual secret cult trying to control Greece and their relations at the time? Also was there any belief in supernatural objects that involved those secret Cults?

​

And how was the Sparta Architecture? Were they scientifically and architecturally as advanced as the other nations? I understand that they prefer a minimal, more humble, rural buildings for their people, less extravagant and embellished. Thanks for your time.

As I understand it, the name of the war is a more modern name for it? Assuming my assumption is correct, what did the people of the time call it?

Also if I may get a second question in, was there much ‘international’ involvement from neighbouring nations seeking to put a horse in the race, so to speak?

In Thucyides (IV, 47) it describes corcyreans trapped in a building being summarily taken out and killed by crowds in batches of 20 until the men in the building refused to go out any longer. And so, the captors broke the roof and began hurling missiles and anything that would kill them. Some began to take their own lives and this lasted most of the night. This seems incredibly brutal, Thuc. even says fathers kill their own sons (III, 81).

Was this the norm for greek warfare? I understand that the ancient world was definitely harsher than our own but christ in heaven it's a bit grim.

Did people during this time understand that this was what war is or were they just as shocked to hear of this?

Could hidden blades like the ones in AC have existed as they are (spring loaded or something like that) in ancient Greece?

Is there a current consensus on what the Athenian plague actually was? I've heard a lot of theories, but when I last looked at the topic 6 years ago it seemed like a lot of people were leaning towards the bubonic plague. Has that changed?

To start, /u/Iphikrates, this is an outstanding (and by my memory, quite a large) AMA you have hosted and I salute you for it.

I asked on the main sub why pop culture seems to like to depict Athens as blue and Sparta as red (Odyssey does the same). Do we know where or who this comes from?

Lysander seems to appear almost out of nowhere when he assumed a leading role in defeating Athens, what do we know of his (apparently allegedly lower class) background in Spartan society? Sparta is typically casted as naval-ignorant, what was the general attitude to a Spartan making his fighting name on the sea as opposed to the land?

Oh! This is my favorite historical episode.

Can you tell me what you believe happened to Alcibiades at the end of his life? Some say he was assassinated in Turkey while others say he just disappeared into the Hellespont.

What impact did the war have on agricultural production in Greece? Did it result in shortages or even famine?

Do you think it's realistic that the hoplite phalanx, when engaged in battle, involved a pervasive "push," or ὠθισμός, which required all of the ranks behind the first one to push against the ranks in front of them? The ancient sources seem to take this for granted, but it seems highly implausible to me. It seems like it would result in tripping over each other, getting tangled up in each other's equipment, and, for the front ranks, the risk of falling and getting trampled by those behind you. I know there's been scholarly debate about this, but my sense is that contemporary historians are in a "trusting" mood, i.e., very hesitant to second-guess the reports of ancient authors on such matters. What's your take? What's the general consensus among other historians?

This question might be a little off in terms of time period, but I would love some detailed information on ancient ballistas. I've read from limited sources then they could throw stones as large as 250 kg, and there are some drawings I've seen that look almost comically massive. Around when did ballistas start seeing frequent use in warfare, how varied could their size and function be, and could they be have built as ridiculously huge as some pictures that can be found on Google depict. Thanks in advance, and keep being awesome. :)

Would it be fair to say that it is dangerous for someone to really enjoy/idolise Spartan culture? Given eugenics and everything else involved?I'm taking ancient Greek history now and honestly can't believe people think Spartans are good guys.

I learned a while back that the ancient Greeks were the first to develop the crossbow. Was it even used in battles or was it just a design concept that didn’t see use till much later?

God I love these posts. This one most of all, excellent work OP

Als Leids Geschiedenis Student, groet ik je

I was wondering if you could talk about the Urban Warfare in Ancient Greece as when I think of the decisive battles of wars in that era (Gaugamela, Marathon, Leuctra) they were all fought outside of cities.

Where there any significant urban battles in Ancient Greek Warfare? Did tactics like the phalanx change while fighting in the cities?

It's not a conflict I know much about, so a "simple" question:

If you had to sum up the entire conflict in a single sentence or short paragraph, what would it be?

Who in Sparta thought it was a good idea to install the 30 tyrants which eventually led to the reversal to all of Sparta’s progress and victory in the Peloponnesian war?

Thanks for doing this btw!

Edit:

D:

Just want to say this thread is A+ and you are doing a great service here :)

How common was the practice of taking military prisoners during this period, and what would the experience be like for someone who surrendered? Could a well-off hoplite expect to be treated reasonably well and then return home after a ransom or prisoner exchange, or would capture typically just mean immediate loss of status and enslavement?

I hate coming into these threads late, and hope this doesn't get lost, but I have not seen anything mentioned here about Lysistrata. If I'm right, this was first performed in 411 BC, which puts it more or less in the middle of the war. Do we know about anti-war moments in this time, or if any of this comedy had a basis in reality?

This may already be asked, if so I apologize, but any books you recommend to those wanting to learn more?

Why is Kassandra better than Alexios

Are there any good works out there that describe the life of subaltern's during the Wars that are accessible outside academia?

Should we take the Melian dialogue to be a genuine outline of Realpolitik, or are its intentions more literary - for example in foreshadowing Sicily?

Thank you for the AMA, Dr. Konijnendijk! Can you speak to the use of mercenaries in the war and how they'd compare to Spartan/Athenian "regulars"? I suspect mercenaries would have been hired companies at a time rather than singular "champions" and primarily used in roles similar to Roman auxiliaries (skirmishers, cavalry, or other specialty support roles) but how would their skills rate compared to a typical Spartan or Athenian company if an equivalent existed in the regular army? I've heard that hoplites were actually pretty rare - what did a field army from either side typically consist of?

I’m actually trying to research Classical Greece for my History Courses at my University!

Do you have any sources for warfare and and the factions involved you’d recommend about the Peloponnesian war? I’ve especially been having a little trouble finding reliable sources for images.

Thanks!

This is a very open ended question with probably a ton of answers and I'm sorry. I know (what I consider to be alot) about this time period and the famous or historical people to come out of this time. What I want to know is if there are any ones I missed because what this perosn contributed to history or w.e isnt considered like Socrates. Idk how to word the question better. Basically I like AC because of the historical characters you meet. There are a bunch I know in AC Odyssey but what are the less famous ones.

The new Assassin's Creed game has a young character, about 10-12 years old, running errands across Athens and even being sent off to different cities to engage in (potentially) dangerous activity. Was giving such young children this level of independence and responsibility common at the time?

Did the Greeks have a gay army, can you dispel or verify the myth of the Greeks having their lovers as fighters as this made them fight harder?

Is there any truth to the idea that the Peloponnesian War was financed by the Persians?

And if so, was it a byproduct of Persian fears of a united Greek army being able to waltz through the Persian empire ( after being helpless to stop the 10,000 greek hoplites from marching home in the Anabasis ).

( I guess pretty realistic fears given what Alexander was finally able to accomplish ).

Any merit? Or just an ancient conspiracy theory?

What's your theory for what happened to Thucydides that meant his work cuts out in 410BC? It's also debated if Thucydides or Herodotus was the first historian, what's your view on this?

What part did Alcibiades play in the Peloponnesian War?

I've enjoyed this thread, thanks!

Since you mentioned Assassin's Creed...how prominent were assassinations at this time, especially during war? Were they brazen affairs (knife in a crowd or arrow in public) or did they tend to run a bit more subtle (poison, made to look accidental, etc..)?

A longstanding modern reading of the war, particularly via Thucydides' writings, has been to see the Peloponnesian War as ideological contest as much as anything else. Do you feel that the belligerents understood it to be an ideological conflict in any significant sense?

Super awesome of you to do an AMA in response to the game! I've been reading through some of the questions so far and you've provided some very interesting answers. Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the past.
 
I was unsure what to go with, but absolutely wanted to ask something. I'm not far into the game and also am not very knowledgeable about this time period, but here goes:
 

• In your opinion, what was so special about the Spartans that contributed to them becoming such a pop-culture phenomenon in our era? and further, what happened to Sparta/Spartan culture that lead to them no longer being around today?
   
  Thanks again for your time!

Didn’t this war set the stage for Greece to be weakened and for Macedon (Phillip & Alexander) to later come to power and take control of the region?

Is it true that Sparta (all Greek city/states?) typically sent two commanders (generals or admirals) to lead their forces in battle? If so, what was the thinking behind that and do we know if it did work well?

How relevant is Greek warfare or the Peloponnesian war in your life? I just don't see how anyone can find reason to continue in such a dead field. I understand we need to know history, but was that the only thing going on that week or..?

Did the Spartan mystic actually impact Sparta’s success?

Do you think the experience of the Peloponnesian War or the economic prosperity or government of Athens at large had a bigger impact on the cultural golden age they experienced? It’s a question I’ve been interested in for a while but I’ve never seen it debated as to WHY Athens boomed culturally so much during the period.

Hi there! So I was wondering—they taught us Antigone in a literature class when I was in high school, using a translation by Aharon Shabtai. I read some of the comments at the end of the translation, and it mentioned that the play was partially written as an anti-war statement: political divisions are no excuse to give up our basic human (and religious) values, and in fact it was said that people at the time would have agreed with Creon’s actions. However, this was not mentioned at all in class, and I partially assumed that it was a form of political censorship of ‘leftist’ ideas.

Was it really a political statement the way Shabtai interpreted it, or is that just a very personal and perhaps fringe interpretation?

I haven’t actually played the game but what are the best books to read about this war? Are there any particular battles that have fascinated you personally and what happened during these? How accurate are sources about these battles? I’ve heard a lot how the Spartans liked to toot their own horn, is this accurate or were they as elite as they said they were?

Beyond food, where did an army source it's equipment? Did armies fight over resources to produce equipment?

Loving this thread so much! Big thanks...

How did the war shape Greece with regards to Alexander's domination, specifically how did it create a situation where Macedonian hegemony was possible?

I've read multiple times that the Persian's would routinely give money to the Athenians or the Spartans (depending on who was actually winning the war at that point), in order to keep the war going and strengthen one side or the other.

Do we have any actual evidence of this happening, from say, Persian sources? Because to me it smells a little of propaganda designed to frighten other city states into siding with someone.

Do we know much about supply lines? How were they armed, clothed, fed, sheltered, entertained?

Did they really have that many huge stone statues?

Very specific topic you got there. I don't have a question right now but I love everything Ancient Greece and studied a bit of Greek and Roman civilisation in college and just wanted to say you're awesome

While Sparta was known for its warriors, I’m curious just how elite Spartan hoplites were. Is there a modern day equivalent to the difference of skill between a spartan and say, an Athenian hoplite?

How come the Persians got their asses whooped by Athens and Sparta?

Other than Leuctra, is Epaminondas famous for any other battles? How did the Spartans react? Did they adapt their tactics? Or try to avoid him

I know this is a big question but how did Alexander "unite" Sparta and Athens after so much?

What was life like for a slave during the Peloponnesian War? Did the Spartans and Athenians treat their slaves any differently?

Would you describe one, if not several, of the stratagies used within their army that had been successful during their time?

EDIT: To know some of their best units would be great as well.

I love history just as much as any history fanatic (my area of interest being WW1, WW2, and The American Civil War). I've always loved history in school no matter what era was being talked about. I'm a senior in high school and have no more history classes, unfortunately. Would AC: Odyssey be a good game to learn about the history of this war, as I do want to work my way towards learning about The Greeks and Romans?

Thucydides famously says that the true cause of the Peloponnesian War was the growing imbalance in power between Sparta and Athens. Namely that the growth of Athenian power challenged the existing Spartan led power structure. This is a widely cited and influential observation in foreign policy circles.

To the best of your knowledge, is this the actual cause of the conflict?

What do you think of the mythical creatures aspect of the game? Sorry if repeat question

How integral was Greek tribal loyalty in choosing sides? Did all Dorian Greeks side with Sparta and did all Ionian Greeks side with Athens? Or was it really a case by case basis?

The role of Argos in the war (especially during the Peace of Nikias and the "war" fought during the Peace) has always confused me - from what I recall their political system and motivations are somewhat of an enigma. Is this primarily because no sources about Argos remain or were even writers in antiquity (like Plutarch) in the dark about the city? Thank you!

Is assasins creed odyssey true in terms of the events that took place?

Why did Athens in the middle of the war decided to invade Sicily ?

What do you consider to be the most humourous fact about the war, something you could use to entertain and grab people's interest?

How did the Peloponnesian War effect the Olympics and other Panhellenic festivals? I image the rivalry between Sparta and Athens was deep seeded enough to cause a plethora of issues. And to expand on that - do we see any competitions between Spartans and Athenians in the way we would see, say, Rocky Balboa versus that Soviet fellow in the Rocky films. 2 elite competitors, fighting it out for the honor of their polis... The people watching at the edge of their seat... I think you get the point. Anyway, would love to hear about this topic!

Thank you!

What did they eat?

How often did they shower?

Where did they set up bathrooms?

How did they entertain the troops to keep up morale?

How did they spread news about sudden battle plan changes?

How much did "the illiad" affect Greek warfare? Also did people of that time take it as fact?

Where the battles really as chaotic as they are portrayed? Or where they more organized with front lines and archers?

Also, did the sides actually hire mercs for every battle?

Thanks for doing this!

What happened to soldiers who were captured by the opposing side? Were they sold into slavery? Ransomed back to the other side?

Also, how common were mercenaries in Classical Greece?

What would be the best source to learn more about the Athens-Spartan dispute as well as the Persian invasion that took place around that time?

How is Thucydides viewed in the scholarly community today? He seems to traditionally have had a reputation as an exceptional historian who was ahead of his time; is that still widely believed?

Do you think Pericles's strategy was effective and his death was a major blow for Athens? Thucydides seems to very much take this view but Donald Kagan in his lecture series argues the opposite and that Cleon's more aggressive stance was vital to getting to a position where they were offered good terms (though that position was then squandered)

Have you played the game? My question is, why is the Temple of a lot of the gods in disarray? I traveled by the Temple of Athena and it was burned down and all rubble.

what do you think about historicality in modern pop culture? as a still studying historian myself, i think its a great and very innovative way to teach history, especially with games and such. sometimes its very difficult to potray the historic events accurate and not make the whole thing very boring. what do you think about the line between historic accuaracy and entertainment?

assassins creed is notable one of the well known games to portray historic events, just as an example, but there are much more games/tv-shows and such.

What book on the subject (which is relatively concise) would you recommend to someone who’s unfamiliar with the period but is interested in learning more, partly at least in the hopes of enjoying A.C. Odyssey more than if they had gone in without any prior knowledge?

Did the concept of war crimes exist back then? How did they view the atrocities of war? Did the greeks have notions of :
1)bad things you do if you win (or bad things that happen to you if you lose)
2)Bad things that happen if things go nasty
3)Bad things that never happen, or if they do, they are remembered and condemned

How did Greek phalanxes hold their dory? Underhand resting on the shield as portrayed in 300 or overhand like a javelin thrower would hold it? Would they hold it in both ways in different times for different purposes?

In my Classics classes at school, the war was usually summarised as "Athens versus Sparta," with perhaps an offhand reference to the Sicilian expedition. In undergrad courses, more attention is paid to the various allies and other actors like Corinth and Thebes.

So having said that: given the war stretched from Sicily to Asia Minor, to what extent should we see the conflict not as a battle between Greek city states but a broader struggle across the central and eastern Mediterranean? That is to say: if I was a Satrap of one of Persia's western provinces, or a merchant out of Tyre, or even an Etruscan or southern Italian nobleman- how aware would I be of this major conflict, and to what extent would it affect my own society?

Dr Konijnendijk? My physics professor is called Konijnendijk too!

I don't know if this has alreasy been answered but can you recommend any good reading material on the period?

I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that a lot of battles during this war and earlier wars we're basically yelling matches with a javelin toss at the beginning.

Is there a uniform way that battles proper was carried out?

And also, did Spartans really carry all of their wounded/dead on the shields after the battle, or was the just prose from poetry taken literally or a gesture performed before burial?

Thanks in advance!

Were there any technological advances during the war? And by technology I would include weaponry, but also things like strategy and fortifications or even supply line instantiation. And how effectively were these advances deployed i.e. to what effect?

Edit: In what way did each city appeal to the gods for success? How did the priestly class play a role, if any, in the war effort?

Why does it seem like Greece produced so many "thinkers" (philosophers, mathematicians, historians, etc.) compared to other Eastern Mediterranean cultures, and why did they have such great influence for so long (the Romans, the Caliphates, etc. all seemed to greatly value Greek texts and knowledge.)

Does Lysistrata have any basis as a historical source?

In your humble opinion, was it good for the Greek world that Sparta won the war?

Is Alexander the Great considered a part of Greek ancient history? Or because he's Macedonian is he technically in a different section?

Who is your favorite Olympian god? Why?

How close to the real thing is Assassin’s Creed Odyssey compared to the Peloponnesian War?

What are your thoughts on the premise that had Sparta and Athens not exhausted themselves during the war that it would not have been possible for Philip of Macedonia to conquer Greece? That if he was unsuccessful we would have had no Alexander the Great? I wonder what your personal thoughts are in this.

Besides Hannibal Barca's Roman campaign, this is my favorite historical time period. I have a few questions:

Who do you think was the most interesting figure in the first, and the second Peloponnesian wars?

Had the Persians won at Salmas or Thermopylae, how do you think the world would look today? Would western civilization have ever risen in Europe?

If you've read them, what are your thoughts on Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire and Tides of war. I know they're both dramatized and events are altered, but I was always curious how true to history they were.

How come enemies wouldn’t just shoot volleys of arrows at the phalanx? Wouldn’t that easily take it down?

Why did the Athenian invasion of Sicily fail?

Why did the neighboring states and empires leave the aegean and the greek states unharrassed since after a couple of years the greatest powers would seem too distracted and the best chance to surprise ?

For example, macedonians, the Achaemenids, even italians (romans or another state of the time )could pose a threat to their sicilean holdings

Their citizen armies couldn't fight more enemies at once, could it?

I’d wager a question on Athenian military performance. I’ve read that the Athenian military apparatus in this era was a lot more versatile than the Spartan one - insofar as they used more combined-arm tactics (archers, skirmishers, cavalry,...) as opposed to the more rigid infantry tactics of the Spartans.

But to which extent is this true? And if so, how did the Athenians not turn out more succesful, given that their military doctrine seemed superior to the Spartan one?

How large were the populations of athens and sparta? How many soldiers could each side deploy? Did the standard battle see thousands of troops on both sides, or just small skirmishes with a couple hundred or less? How could two cities sustain a population to fight such a war?

How did they overcome the plague eventually? I see that you shared ⅓ passed due to the plague. While that's a lot, how did the rest not get infected without proper vaccines like we have today? Were there also sort of quarantines?

I wrote a paper about the effects of the Athenian plague on the outcome of the war. So I'm curious, what is your take on that? Do you think it changed anything in the end? Or would the outcome have been the same even if the Athenians hadn't lost a large part of their population along with their famed general?

How important was Aspasia's role in Athenian society? Did she really influence the teachings of Socrates?

What's one unanswered question about ancient warfare that you would want answered if you could go back and see for yourself?

I'd like to know more about Thucydides' trap. How did it unravel, and did they have any chance to avoid it?

What would you like to know that you don’t know already about this time period and location?

Question:
What did a Greek Marching Camp look like? There is a ton of info on the details of how the Romans built a defensive fort *every night* and tore it down every day when marching through hostile areas. I think this aspect played a huge role in their military success, so I was curious about how the Greeks did.

What was the military training for non-spartan greeks of the time like?

How crucial were infantry formations to these great battles? Every movie shows greek/persian warriors doing awesome things with spears and shields but NEVER in formation fighting.

What tactics and formations did either side use? Was the phalanx already the “go to” formation for Greek hoplites or were there alternatives?

I know that mercenaries were relatively common place during the Classical era, but would they be relegated to any sort of lower status or of particular battlefield utility (getting less prestigious positioning or more dangerous assignments), and would they be used as anything else other than soldiers (assassins, saboteurs, etc)?

I've always been curious how different eras viewed and utilized mercenaries, especially considering how different a modern mercenary is in scope and use to that of the classical era, or even later renaissance era Italian, Swiss, and German mercenaries.

How did the Spartans’ contemporaries view their army? You see Sparta being put on a pedestal by things like 300 in modern times, but how accurate is that?

I noticed in one of the questions you mentioned Alkibiades, while the war itself is very much the backdrop for the events in the game (at least to the point I've gotten to) the well known characters of the era Socrates, Herodotus, Perekles, Aspasia, Sophocles etc. are front and centre. Alkibiades is presented as a flamboyant, libidinous extrovert continually frustrating to and frustrated by Socrates ( who also finds him amusing) is there any truth behind this depiction or is it just fictitious? I know he was known to be a successful general and fought on both sides of the war after being expelled from Athens.

I can't make sense of something in Thucydides and I hope you can clear it up for me. In the battle of Pylos, I thought Athens had built a rough fort on the island and repelled a spartan invasion. But later on after negotiations broke down the island had to be invaded by Athens against besieged Spartans. What happened to the Athenians who originally occupied the island; were they all killed, did they escape, or was it a different island?

Can you speak at all to the impact climate and agrarian productivity had on the politics that led to the Peloponnesian War? It's been years since I've read Thucydides, but since I was studying environmental history at the time I remember being struck by how little history had been done on the role climate played in the conflict.

I recently saw a video talking about the Peoloponbese war, in it stated that at some point the Athenian navy was doing a naval blockade of the peloponnesian league, preventing them from having acess to shipments of resources. Later on this decision backfired at the Delos league, due to the fact that some grain shipments were infected and plaged a large part of the Athenian population. Exactly how impactful was this plague to the course of the war? Overall was it a decisive one or a minor setback?

I remember reading here on reddit about a Greek general who deployed his best troops on the flanks rather than the centre as was usual. The elite troops swept through the enemy's lesser defenders as his best guys were in the centre where he was expecting the biggest threat to be. The tactic surprised his enemy and he won the day. Can you tell of any other examples of sneaky tricks or cunning plans from that period that a layman like myself would appreciate.

How did the Peloponnesian War affect the Greek philosophy giants?

Not sure if this has been asked but how important were mercenaries to the war? What’re some famous mercenaries groups to read up on? Would they be much like achilles and the myrmidons?

Did people in Athens and Sparta identify as members of a greater Greek culture, or did they feel culturally divided?

A bit late but I've just been reading this thread and another linked one (about the Spartan warrior myth) and the notion of democracy being tied to Athens and tyranny being tied to Sparta seems a bit weird to me.

Did Sparta not also have a democratic system for its citizens the same as Athens? Even with strong oligarchic elements within it?

And did Athens not also have a sizable slave population which had no democratic rights? Also considering that Helots could own half of what they produced and on occasion buy their freedom.

One thing I wonder about is the difference between Laconian Helots and non-Laconian Helots. Usually Helots as seen as a single group though I've heard about examples of Laconian Helots serving important roles as essentially the Laconian state would also be their homeland.

What do you think of "A war like no other" by Victor Davis Hanson?

What do you think about Donald Kagan's book on the Peloponnesian War?

One thing Thucydides doesn't really go into is the mundanity of greek culture. For example, he talks of a ship being sent to recolonize, but none of the details about how the ship functions, its speed, its make. Is there a source today that goes into those sorts of details of greek culture?

How come we've never been able to figure out the secret of making Greek fire?

Where can I go to read about Corcyra’s involvement and how it led to the first conflict between Athenian and Spartan forces?

In Greek hoplite on hoplite warfare the importance of supporting units like archers, javelinmen and cavalry is often mentioned. Do we know if the Spartans or Athenians used them differently?

What's your favourite ancient historical siege, and why?

Hey u/Iphikrates, I know Im super late to the party but I am hoping to get some insight to something I've been curious about regarding status in Spartan society, during the Peloponnesian war if you will.

My question is regarding the Perioikoi and the question of why they had this middle ground of status while living in Laconia under Spartan law.

If the Perioikoi were Dorian in origin, why weren't they considered Spartans? And inversely, if they weren't Dorian, then why were they not Helots? Why is there specifically a middle ground for these people where they can live basically free (can own and travel) but aren't allowed Spartan citizenship?

I've heard suggestions that they may have been cooperative in Sparta controlling Messenia and that's why they were given this status, and while this seems plausible, I would love to hear your opinion on the seemingly bizarre status of the Perioikoi. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

How were the Spartans able to field a force that was at parity with Athens, given the orders of magnitude difference between their citizen populations? Were the other forces (periokoi, helots) sufficient?

How is it that the Spartans were so rarely defeated until Leuctra?

To what degree were the major speeches by Pericles, the Athenian/Corinthian diplomats, etc. as recounted by Thucydides reflective of actual political/diplomatic beliefs and relationships at the time (particularly the "legendary" characteristics of Athens and the Athenians)?

As well as video games, there are also board games that deal with this subject. One of my favourites is Pericles: The Peloponnesian War. I'm not a history buff but I do enjoy playing games that have historical themes. I may not have the desire to pursue any detailed analysis but I learn bits here and there every time I play such games. I find them an engaging process.

Was Sparta ruled by a shadow government? I vaguely remember something along those lines but I can't remember what it was called and thus cannot locate any information on it.

Hey Roel,

Any particular cool stories to tell your friends about the peloponessian war?

That quote of Thucydides in reference to people minding their own business, have no business here, changed my whole outlook on politics when I was younger, and Perikles became one of my favourite people of all time...

I’ve been incredibly interested in the warfare tactics in Classical Greek warfare. Are there any books you would recommend?

In regards to the aftermath of the battle of Arginusae, did the execution of the Athenian generals (by their own people) have any significant impact on the outcome of the war?

I have a question, however it isn’t specifically about Greek warfare, and more about Greek culture as a whole. May I ask or is this post limited to warfare only?

What are some good books on Ancient Greek Warfare?

What’s the best book to read on Ancient Greece as a whole? Not just the Peloponnesian war?

During the Peloponnesian war, Sparta is a world power, by the time if Alexander's conquests it is a small town. I don't believe it was ever conquered so what happend to it?

What was the Athen’s approach to warfare. Not much of Athen is talked about compared to the Spartans

What was the composition of the army of Epirus during that period?

Do you think that the Peloponnesian assault on the Piraeus, where they inevitably decided to focus on Salamis, would’ve been successful if it weren’t for the distractions from Salamis?

Also, how effective could the Spartan navy have been executing the periplous, or that one formation that generally countered a diekplous (the circular one, similar to a hollow square). I’m trying to see if there were ways that the Spartan navy could have been a more superior fighting force, given they practiced effective strategies and received proper training.

Did religious conflicts play any part in the war, or were both sides pretty much in the same place religiously speaking?

I've heard that women in Sparta were treated different than in most Greek cities. Wich was their role in spartan society?

This question isn’t really related to Greek warfare but do you know how long it took to make cloths and how long would they last? (If you know how long it takes to make armor that would also be nice) thanks

First of all, thanks and congrats for your AMA. I read a lot about the war at school, but since then I have forgotten. My questions would be the following:

1. In a TLDR fashion, why did the war occur? Was it a fight for resources? A skirmish escalated more than it should? Personal aspirations? All in all, was it a war that would have made "sense" (if a war can make sense) under today's standards? (e.g. the potential gains justify the likely losses etc).

2. What are some interesting episodes of the war?

3. What was the greatest strategy or tactic employed at the war - one we should see a video about?

4. Were, in general, the fighting style, technology and strategy improved in relation to the Persian wars?

5. How were the ships in the inside? How was sanitation?

6. What was the most advanced weapon used at the war?

Regarding Athens' navy: who fought on board the ships? Was it troops of specifically trained naval spearman and archers, or was it just hoplites who were stationed on the ships? Or was it something else entirely?

Who is regarded as the best general of this war? (and is the merit warranted?)

How advanced were they in medicine?

From a strategic point of view for large scale battles. Were Greeks always using the shield and spear and was this most effective?

If you were to return to this time what would be your weapon of choice for fighting alone?

Hi!
First off, thanks for the AMA.

I was wondering if you could recommend any good documentaries about the time period or war tactics?

(All the History Channel "Documentaries" are just the same stock footage recycled over and over again, sensationalized with very little information.)

THANKS!

The ships I've seen on clips of the game have seemed huge to my eye, and the rigging looks more advanced than I would have expected, in this picture for an example: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OZaSHhu_0_4/maxresdefault.jpg How accurate would you say the ships are?

First of all thanks so much for doing this.

So I'm the game you play as a mercenary and I was wondering at the historical authenticity of that. Was it common for the different sides to hire mercenaries to fight? Would it be common for them to switch sides depending on where the money is coming from?

Also, the canon protagonist is a woman, would this be plausible? Was there any record of female combatants in Ancient Greece?

What role did colonial polis play during the war? was it common for them to side with and support their founding polis or did they remain neutral?

Just to start off, the idea of ancient battles sound terrifying. Getting up close to an advancing line of spears or to charging horses doesn't particularly sound like a good time to me. How particularly accustomed to these terrible situations were ancient Greek soldiers? Were "good" soldiers primarily those that were acutely accustomed? Also how long did battles tend to last before lines broke and soldiers routed, ending the battle?

Also a quick side question my professor and I were wondering if you could give any insight: after the agreements were made to collect the dead, how were the dead transported back?

Please give your thoughts on the timeless debate of whether hoplites in phalanx held their spears overhand or underhand. Pottery usually depicts overhand, but common sense and basic sense of martial arts suggests that underhand makes most sense.

Have you also read anything interesting about the Sacred Band of Thebes? Is there any connection to the Sacred Band of Carthage? Anything notable or interesting about either?

Sorry to be greedy, but one more question: how effective were javelins and sling stones at killing (as opposed to "harassment" or "suppression of movement")? What was the typical effective range?

Actually, deviating from the Peloponnesian War, but remaining on the topic of Greek Warfare, in your opinion, would you say that the Trojan War may have actually occurred sans divine/supernatural interference?

Obviously there is a lot of myth to this conflict, but as a bit if a history enthusiast I have read that some finds from a few different cultures nearby to the region of conflict that were roughly dated to the reported time period had all agreed that something happened.

Could warriors like Achilles, Ajax, etc actually lived and existed? What would the fighting have looked like back then if it did occur?

How did the rift the Peloponnesian War created affect the way Athens and Sparta defended from non-Greek invaders?

What would the predictions of the victors have been at the start of the war? Sparta and Athens were considered the two major powers, but were they considered equal? And how did this change as the war continued on?

I used to make models of the siege engines. The kinds that were towers with a draw bridge for the walls. Were these a real thing? If so, how many versions were there? Thanks!

Was linothorax used by either side at this time? or was that more Alexanders era.

To what extent did the Persians, if any, have on the war?

I've heard varying takes on the whole "Combat is staged as high profile duels between heroes" trope from differing historians, some think it is just dramatization, others believe it was a real practice. Is there any historical evidence one way or the other?

What was the typical battlefield lineup in the field? Where were archers, skirmishers, hoplites, cavalry positioned relative to each other? Did each city state use similar formations or were they drastically different?

What current scholarly works do you recommend for more advanced students, particularly as regards tactics, descriptions, etc.

What is your favorite Greek weapon/less common weapon?

How was the Minotaur created?

Do you think the pelo war was the reason Greece went on to lose to Rome two hundred years later? Sort of like how the world war weakened the great powers of Europe and allowed America to become top dog.

In Thucydides' account, Macedon keeps switching allegiance from one side to the other, and each side always seems willing to offer enticements to get them to switch back. How did this strategy work out for the Macedonians overall?

Aside from phalanx formations, which are predictably going to be common in this war, what other combat styles were practiced?

In AC: Odyssey we see battles that have devolved into essentially a free for all with stereotypical (and inaccurate) hacking and slashing without any technique or finesse, while the protagonst shows lots of flashy movement and choreography (also unrealistic).

Once formations break down, what sort of combat experience were we likely to view in these fights?

Do you know much, about the fall of Troy?

Are you familiar with Dr. Farhad Daftary's Assassin Legends? What do you think?

Did Greek warriors have mullets or is that a myth?

[mild spoiler for the game below]

In the game, you hunt down members of a cult (the cult of Kosmos). The cult is made up of around 45 members from all across Greece that aim to control the country.

Is it likely that such an organisation existed (or could have existed)?

Edit to relate more to the topic: if such an organisation did exist, would they have been able to start and influence the war in a way that they desired?

What from the ancient greek period, in your opinion, has the biggest influence on modern day culture and society?

What, in your opinion, was the most interesting part of the war, or the society, or the geopolitical climate at the time?

In AC:Odyssey, there are a lot of "leaders" who were women, and even a few mercenaries. Were females accepted in the political sphere? Also what was the main reason the Athenians lost? Was it due to lack of strength that the Spartans boasted of, or were Spartans more adept at strategy than the Athenians believed?

Last question: who's navy was seen as more "polished" or "stronger" and why?

What images did the Athenians tend to have on their shields?

Can you tell us about your work with Mr. Bardunias and other reenactors? Has it shed any light on areas of your work where there was little information and challenged ideas you may have previously held?

Were mercenaries /misthios actually common

How important was religion in ancient societies like Athens or Sparta? Is there a general mode of operation like for example going to mass on Sunday or temple on Saturday? Being a polytheistic society could people just pick and choose who they wanted to pray to? Also did these religions or gods call for human sacrifice?

What sort of differences in equipment might be seen between Athenian and Spartan warriors? What about their allies, the Thebans, Thessalians, and Macedonians? How about Aeolic and Ionian colonies and minor allies?

And, at a risk of sounding silly, who would you personally consider the "bad guy" of the war?

EDIT: ALSO how about those accounts of Spartan women actually participating in battle during invasions of Sparta? I believe this was Pyrrhus rather than Peloponnese, but since you say Greek warfare as a whole, would this still be appropriate?

Today, the Athenians sailing a huge force to invade Syracuse while already strained by the Peloponnesian war seems like lunacy and the height of hubris. The fact that they didn't withdraw back to Greece after getting bogged down, and instead doubled down and sent reinforcements, seems even crazier.

Is there context that we're missing? Would it have seemed like a logical tactical move for someone lacking our hindsight? Did a large part of the population think it was a bad idea? Was the loss at Syracuse really as significant as it's played up to be? What scale were the Athenian losses? Any context you can give would be welcome.

Years ago I read Tides Of War by Steven Pressfield and enjoyed it. Woudl you consider it to be a fairly historically accurate take on the war?

Was there any side who was justified in the war? Why do you side with that League?

In what ways has the historiography of the peloponnesian war changed in the last ten-twenty years. Have there been any developments/new dominant ways of thinking/discoveries?

In the scheme of city state budgets of the time, how onerous was the fee that Athenian allies had to pay to be part of the Athenian League and protected by them? Was is a monetary objection primarily, or the indignity of being forced into it that chafed?

I've read before on AH that at one point the Greek city state of Sicily was far wealthier and more powerful than either Athens or Sparta (or any other Greek city state), but we don't talk about them much because most of our sources only talk about Athens and Sparta? Would you agree? If so, why are our sources mainly to due with those two?

Stoked that you’re here because I just started reading the Landmark edition of Thucydides.

I’m curious if you have read any of Pressfield’s historical fiction, like Tides of War which follows the Peloponnesian War, and what you thought of it if so.

Hi im a classical civilization student have you got any good guides for the odyssey to recommend.

What's your favourite thing Alcibiades did?

I’ve read that some Ancient Greek philosophers were skeptical about the existence of gods, did that skepticism carry though to skepticism of the validity of Homer’s epics?

As they epics contained gods as characters influencing the outcome of supposedly historical events, were the supposed historical events in Homer themselves questioned by ancient Greeks too?

Am I wrong in thinking the actual clash where the two enemy formations fought would have looked something the offensive and defensive lines grappling with each other in American football? Follow up question, in that situation what would be most likely way to get hurt or killed, spear thrust to the torso?

What was the catalyst for the Peloponnesian war

Did Sparta's 'War Hawk' nature and war-based culture help or hurt it in and after the battle?

Do you plan on playing the game yourself? I think it would be interesting to see your impressions on everything, such as small details you’re impressed they included in the game, or obviously wrong things everyone else looks past.

This isn't about the Peloponnesian War so it might get buried. What gave The best the edge that eventually allowed them to decimate Sparta? And did this have a direct correlation to Philip of Macedons success?

Hey, this isn't strictly about the Peloponnesian War, but it does tie into it. Suppose that Athens had never gone through all of its democratic reforms under Solon and Cleisthenes and the like, but had instead remained oligarchic. Do you believe that Athens and Sparta would still come to be enemies? Thank you for your time.

In what conflicts might Socrates have participated?

How close to reality was 300?

How much force does it take for an average foot soldiers spear/sword to penetrate average armor

Thank you for doing this - I've become completely addicted to this game since its release.

In the game, Alcibiades is depicted as extremely effeminate. How accurate is this portrayal?

The Athenians wear blue in this game and Spartans wear red. Did the sides actually wear their colors during the war?

Kephallonia is depicted as an out of the way, crime-ridden backwater, the boondocks of ancient Greece. Corinth is labelled "the home of beautiful corruption" and is known for its corruption and prostitutes. This might be a very local and specific question, but how true are these portrayals?

No questions, but wildly interesting topic. Thanks for giving insight. I will keep reading your replies!

I heard hoplite armor was more to prevent crush death than stopping enemy weapons.

Is that true? Was there any reason the Greek city states kept using the short spear phalanx instead

of switching to the Macedonian style pike phalanx early on? I would think lengthening spear length

would have been an obvious option for them.

Odyssey notes that any Athenian citizens were displeased with the ~12mil Drachmae spent on the Parthenon/Statue of Athena. How would they have reacted at the time? What would they have done to voice their grievances?

This may not be your forte, but I'm about to start this topic in my class of 7th/8th graders. What would be the most exciting/engaging thing to tell them about? What primary sources could I use?

What kind of physical training or conditioning would have been typical for the time period? Did soldiers do strengthening exercises as part of their training? Was there reasonable understanding of the relationship between strength, exercise, and diet?

What were the motivations for Sparta and Athens to go to war?

How would you evaluate Xenophon’s account compared to Thucydides? Is he worthy successor to his writing style? I am also curious, what was the impact of Brasidas’ unit on Spartan military strategy?

The primary strategy of the Athenians was for Sparta to march out of Peloponnesus and to incite a helot insurrection. Sparta's warfighting capability would be significantly impeded due to having to control their own "population".

How close were the helots, as a whole, coming to rebel in the opening phase of the war when the Athenians his behind their wall before the death of Pericles in the plague?

What about the guy on the end of the phalanx

Why was the Peloponnesian War beaten into my brain in every upper division poli sci class, just sorta generally.

In other words: “The Peloponnesian War is significant to study as it relates to Game Theory and IR for political science undergrads because __________.”

Thanks-

If I were looking for a Greek warrior name Ulysses, what records should I be referencing?

Is it true that there’s no evidence of Corcyra after they destroyed themselves during their civil war?

What is the difference between a strategos and a polemarch? Did they receive any kind of formal education in warfare, or were they simply the most experienced soldiers?

In your personal opinion, what is the most shocking aspect of the war?

Late to the party but hope I can get an answer. I used to teach 6th grade. In studying Ancient Greece, I taught the connection between the advent of hoplite warfare and democracy. Essentially, as hoplite equipment and tactics came to dominate, landowners who could afford that gear were pressed into military service. This drew a contrast to earlier periods where only nobles had armor and armies were relatively disorganized. Being required by the nobility to risk their lives for the state, they started to demand more rights.

​

This argument draws heavily on one lecture by one college professor I had. The question is, is this a common viewpoint? Or are the political and military trajectories of Greek states not usually tied together in this way?

Alright, best question I can think of, what if anything made the expedition to Sicily unviable? Could the strategy to surround Sparta have worked in the long term?

You now have the magical power to inject one paragraph of knowledge about the Peloponnesian War into the education system everywhere on the planet. What do you want people to know?

Is there still historical debate about “how” battles were fought in the ancient period? When the infantry hit infantry I’ve seen various descriptions of pushing and breaks and pushing again, there wasn’t pushing and the first lines would kind of fight for a while and then fall back to let the next lines fight, that maybe it just devolved into an ancient mosh pit of chaos. Since writers didn’t really write how ancient armies fought it seems to have been a bit of a problem. Do we have better knowledge of this?

Hi! I'm a lover of the book of humanity know as history! I went to university for it as well, though I never got to finish. Though it was a while back, and I may be remembering it completely wrong, I recall reading about the phalanx formation stationing the strongest of the troops on the right side. And as the battle commenced the two columns would push eachother to the point rotating. I was wondering how true this was and also how often would a formation, or at least part of a formation, would break to the point of single one of one combat, much like video games portray?

Was artaxerxes really blind? and why is he in atenas?

So I know in other armies in later ages, men had to supply their own armor. Did Spartans and Athenians supply their own armor based on the amount they could afford, or was armor supplied to them? Sorry this is late.

Can you talk a little about the philosophers of this era? How were they regarded and treated? How did they affect Classical Greek Warfare?

Not about the game.

Do you see any similarities between the mythos of the Peloponnesian War and the Epic of Gilgamesh? Just curious.

If Lionidas was a descendant of Hercules, and Hercules was descendant of a god, Zeus, is it possible that all Zeus was was a mortal king or leader, but just too far back in time for written record to make sense of his being mortal, just only the stubborn refusal of some people to accept that a great person can die. In the same way that Elvis died and people in even just 5 decades still believe he's alive?

What's your favorite battle?

Why do historians describe Alexander of Macedonia, who slaughtered tens of thousands and conquered millions, as "Great"?

If you’ve read the book, how historical/fictional is Stephen Pressfield’s Tides of War?

How common was gay sex among soldiers (with other soldiers) vs prostitutes or slaves/indentured servents?

A few hours before an ancient battle, was it common to warm up/stretch/ do drills in preparation like modern sports events?

Was there anything comparable to the corvus (Raven), mostly known to be used by the Romans, that the Ancient Greeks used in naval warfare in that period?

What do you think, besides what Thucydides wrote, went down during the Melian dialogue? Thucydides basically made up the dialogue based on what was said of the conversation afterward, and the siege of Melos was exemplary for the Athenians; they didn't ever want to see opposition like that again.

Why what’s Alcibiades’ deal and did him switching sides so much actually matter in the long run? Edit: also I’m interested in becoming a historian should I? And if so any tips or things you wish you knew when you stated on this career path?

Did Agamemnon really sacrifice his child?

Hello! Thanks for doing this AMA! I'm currently reading The Peloponnesian War by Donald Kagan, and I'm really loving it, but I keep coming back to the idea of how the war really began: it seemed like neither side really wanted the war, but kind of just fell into it due to either side being stubborn and allies pressuring Sparta. Where do you think the real failing in negotiations happened, and do you think Spartan attempts at peace were reasonable? Was Athens being too stubborn and too sure of their defensive strategy? I'm interested to hear your opinions on this.

"Spartan tradition of military heroism has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships"

Interesting, thanks for doing this AMA. I actually came across this excerpt from Wikipedia just yesterday. How accurate would you say this excerpt is in regards to the Spartans?

Why did it take so long for enemy armies to develop effective tactics against the Phalanx?

What do you think of Graham Allison's Thucydides Trap theory?

I have heard that Athens tried to conquer a neutral territory during the war and lost all their ships and men. The commander didn't want to leave the territory because it didn't seem auspicious and as a result Athens lost the war to sparta. How true is this?

What the best fun or odd fact you can provide on this subject material?

In your opinion, was the Peloponnesian War really that consequential in Classical Greek history and the Hellenistic era, or was it just a war that set Athens back for a while and we’re just happen to have it (and Thucydides work) that makes it more comparatively detailed to the other wars of the Classical era

Bedankt voor je AMA! With an event as old and studied as the Peloponnesian War, I suspect there’s not an awful lot of new primary sources popping up. What sources are recent discoveries based on? What sources do you think we’ll get over the next few decades?

How much did the war affect the world?

Can you explain how the aftermath of the Greco-Persian wars led to the buildup of tensions and eventually the Peloponnesian war?

Do you think Socrates deserved what he got?

I’ve seen some things that talks about how Sparta wasn’t really special militarily, and that the actually city-state with a really great army was Argos. How true is that.

I haven’t played the game but I do have a very broad question that has probably been answered before but why not ask directly, you know? How was warfare generally conducted in Ancient Greece? I seem to recall Greece used naval battles? And I’ve heard about hoplites but I’m not sure how historically accurate the description of hoplites are. Also did the different Greek city-states have different tactics/practices regarding warfare and combat? Did they have many military interactions with other classical civilizations? How would their tactics and practices differ from the Greek’s?

How much of stories and legacies left behind is usually just myths? Is it even possible to be source critical, do we have more than one sources on battles/events?

(Thinking of the Troj myth and later the discovery of the ancient city.)

Also do we have records of cavalry used this era? If yes, what was their function? As many historians have claimed how clumsy they might have been compared to infantry.

And finally, do we have any records of assassinations?

What was The Delphi Oracle role in that war? Was that really important?

This isn't particularly a question about warfare, but I was always under the impression that Sparta as a city was somewhat dull. And being that most of the written sources come from Athenians, Sparta would be seen as more of the aggressor and a bit more negatively. I recognized most of the points of interest in Athens in the game since I did study alot about it back in college.

That being said, I was actually very surprised at how colorful and beautifully crimson Sparta was in the game. It really felt uniquely heroic and elegant, and I would have to say that it was perhaps my favorite looking city. As you have said that you have not played the game, I can describe how it looks in-game. Sparta had massive structures and statues of heroes greeting visitors from the main gate. How accurate was this depiction? Are there any first hand sources detailing Sparta's city layout?

What role did the island Ikaria play during that time period? Whatever info you have would be cool.

How do we have any clue what happened back then?

Sorry if this question is too broad/general, but how many battles would the average warrior survive? War seems so much more brutal then than now, it seems crazy that anyone could make it through 2-3 battles at most.

Is there any evidence that there werent any unicorns imported from India in the war?

Like in this image. http://static.gosunoob.com/img/1/2018/10/AC-Odyssey-How-to-Get-Unicorn-Epic-Horse-Skin-for-your-Mount-1024x576.jpg

Do you like the game? Is it accurate? What's the biggest quarrel you have from a historical standpoint?

Did the Spartans ever win a naval battle against the Athenians?

To what extent did the Greco-Persian Wars change the way Greek city-states waged war?

Do you believe that Thebes actually stacked it’s phalanx fifty deep at leuctra? If so why doesn’t any other historian or source mention it, if not why does Xenophon?

What roles did mercenaries fill in this war? Were they has important as they were in the game or less so? Was the cult of kosmos based of any ancient cult or is it it's own thing?

Hoe is Leiden? Ik zit op dit moment naar universiteiten te kijken en Leiden lijkt mij wel leuk! (Sorry dat dit niet gaat over de Peloponesissche Oorlogen)?

Loving the username. Why was there a transition towards a more combined arms approach at the end (and after) the Peloponnesian War? Why did Athenian generals like Iphicrates attempt to innovate on the standard hoplite formation by lengthening the spear and lightening the armor when hoplite warfare seemed to have been operating well enough for the various city-states of that time?

So, in Greece we've been tought that Athens was a massive navy force, but how big were they compared to Sparta or some other relatively big military forces at the time?

Overarm or underarm spear holding in phalanx formation?

Did Archimedes really use a set of mirror shields to burn invading Roman ships? What is the most ingenious ancient Greek weapon you ever read about?

Between all the ruthless fighting, was there any use of chemical warfare in the Peloponnesian War? If so, did it have any major impact on the war?

Could you elaborate on the tactics used during the war? Were there any new tactics that caught the other army off guard? Did any of those tactics last for a while because of how good they were?

How important is it for new translations of ancient texts to be made? Is it worth people's time to keep updating classic literature like Plutarch?

Crashcourse has an episode or two on YouTube that covers this time period. In it they mention that the Athenians raided a neutral town and when the towns people requested mercy (due to their neutrality) the Athenians replied “The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must.”

How accurate is this narrative? And where would we even get such a play by play retelling from?

Was a single Greek Hoplite still a capable combatant 1vs1, outside of a Phalanx?

Why was Plataea destroyed, were they not held as a sacred place for both sides for their contributions against the Persians? And what do you think of Thucydides as in being a reliable primary source?

What is for you the most interesting aspect of this period in Greek history that is the most overlooked?

Did the aftermath of the Peloponnesian War influence any other battles that came after the end?

Or was it very much a conflict confined to those years with no influence on future wars?

How well received was Lysistrata and Women at the Thesmophoria to the politicians of Athens?

Why did the Persians use the pass at Thermopylae? Why not use other roads to Attika?

How accurate is the map in Assassins Creed Odyssey? Are the cities well placed and is it missing anything? What about the locations of temples? And the seas?

AC: Odyssey presents a pretty clear good / bad dichotomy as far as Athenian politics are concerned. Pericles and the elite circle of "bright young things" -- Socrates, Aristophanes, Euripides, etc. -- are the goodies, Cleon and his buddies are the baddies. In fact, the game quite explicitly paints him as a Trumpian demagogue (complete with references to orange skin tone and "making Athens great again") and depicts him as a sleazy, outright villainous snake. When he "takes over" Pericles' leading role in the democracy after Pericles' death, the main characters (and the game itself, through the titles of achievements and quests) treat this as the "fall of democracy".

Now I know Cleon had a bad rep among our major sources, the likes of Thucydides and Aristophanes. How would you / your colleagues assess his role? Did he conduct the war competently? Was he beneficial or detrimental to Athenian democracy and the well-being of the polis?

How exactly did Achilles die?

Recently went (in game) to the Parthenon,( I've lived in Greece for a year and a half, and I'm currently taking a class about ancient Greece), I was excited to climb to the inner walls of the Parthenon to see how they depicted the frieze, but they just took a small portion of it an copied and pasted it basically, around the entire Parthenon.. made me sad lol..

Did Spartans really throw out babies they deemed unfit for war?

What were some of the more unusual troop types to play a part in the war?

I know thracians were typically light infantry but might have also been armed with the somewhat mysterious rhomphia sword/spear/axe/whatever it is.

Did nomadic horse archers ever get involved to a notable extent?

Did the Greeks use catapults or trebuchets? Obviously such advanced minds would see the superiority of the trebuchet, but I might as well ask.

Hi. I understand that this thread is a few days old, and I apologize for this late question.

I have read all your answers (it took quite a long time, but it was super interesting!), and haven't seen the question of the Long Walls built by Athens addressed. Were they effective? Is there evidence that they proved useful in protecting Athens' route to the Piraeus and Athens' hinterland?

Related to the protection of Athens, I have once read (but can't remember where nor from whom) an account of someone saying that if Attica had been an island instead of a peninsula, Athens would have won the war. how would you rate this assessment?

And finally, on another topic: you have recommended in one of your answers to directly read Thucydides or Xenophon. My question is: how "readable" is this for a ancient Greece History enthusiast, but not scholar? Does it read as easily as a fiction, or is it harder to follow?

Thanks!

In “lords of the sea” by John Hale, he argues that the Athens would have won the war early if not for the plague. Do you agree with this?

Do you have any intention of playing the game or going through it at least to experience it first hand to get an good look at the living world they created, it's like a window in history.

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I would imagine that's something any historian would be interested in, both out of curiosity and also to see how it holds up to what you historians actually know about it and how accurate the world is.

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Sorry if you’ve answered this, couldn’t find it in my searches. Did Spartan soldiers really kick in battle or was that association added when 300 came out?

I heard many (possibly unreliable) sources say that the Greek cavalry was relatively weak in comparison to many other regions in the antiquity. How did they protect the flanks of their slow moving formations? Why did the Greek refuse to adapt a formation other than the phalanx when it was shown to be difficult to pull off against highly mobile Romans?