Question about Macedonia and Greece.

by slaydawgjim

I was just reading an article about Greeks rioting in Athens about The Republic of Macedonia changing its name to The Northern Republic of Macedonia and as someone who has absolutely no knowledge of historic or modern Greece it's led me to a few questions that I'd like to ask.

  1. Is Macedonia its own country or is it part of Greece and what's the history behind the two's relations?
  2. Why do Greeks care about the name change? In the article I read it said they were shouting 'Macedonia is Greece' and 'Hands off Macedonia' which to me are contrasting opinions?
  3. Why do Greece have control over whether Macedonia should be allowed in EU/NATO? In the article it said they were refusing to let them join due to the name dispute but I don't understand why they have this power.
  4. Why do Russia care? They were also mentioned in the article.

I've never used this sub before so I hope this fits here, overall I was happily scrolling through Facebook when I came to this CNN article and lost my mind. Thanks!

Source article - https://cnn.it/2FMMQCY

Chary_

Disclaimer: I’m Macedonian (a little Greek as well but still, I’m definitely a bit biased.)

Tldr: Modern Macedonia gained independence from Yugoslavia and promised to protect all Macedonians, also used Macedonian symbols claimed by Greece, and used maps of “United” Macedonia. This didn’t threaten Greece’s liberty but instead their national ideals. As such Greece is hardline against their nation having its name and seemingly it’s sovereignty.

Full version:

Macedonia is used for several things, that are connected by one thing, the famous kingdom of Alexander the Great. After the kingdom fell completely the region of Macedonia shifted a few times and was shifted around by several kingdoms and peoples. Bulgars, Slavs, Vlachs, Greeks, and depending on who you ask the native Macedonians themselves.

Macedonia was the Ottoman Empires last major region in Europe alongside Thrace, Albania, parts of Serbia, etc. The population there was already a bit of a problem for all three involved, Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece. This is because they weren’t really majority any of them, and depending on your stance this can be due to their mixed nature, lack of nationalism, or because they were a different people group entirely.

The three Balkan Powers all fought to convert the population, remnants of this are seen through ethnic maps all from the same time demonstrating wildly different figures for whose there. Also seen through several heinous acts from all involved.

This came to the boiling point when these three, alongside rebelling Albania and Serb-Friend Montenegro, fought together to expel the Ottomans and had to divy up land. Borders weren’t at all like modern ones and Bulgaria got a lot of Macedonia because they did the best job of “convincing” locals of their Bulgarian heritage. This wasn’t enough for them and they fought in the Second Balkan war only to lose all but a marginal piece of Macedonia, alongside half of Thrace (which really was populated by majority Turks and Bulgarians). Serbia got modern Macedonia and eventually became Yugoslavia, calling their piece of the region “Vardar” after the river and the people South Serbs. All three began policies of assimilate resulting in atrocities and several diasporas.

Under Tito, however, Macedonians were recognized as a separate people and given a federal state. Some see this as liberation like O do and others see it as brainwashing/propaganda. Tito made alliances with Communists in Greece and Bulgaria and deals to recognize Macedonians, open schools that teach the language, etc. When the Greek communists lost the war and Bulgarians sided with Stalin, however, these advances were reversed and the nations took several more oppressive stances towards Macedonians to prevent such a thing from happening again. This isn’t even debatable, Macedonian isn’t recognized as a Language/Identity in Bulgaria and the Macedonian national party is outlawed there to this day. In Greece one can look up the process of Hellenization and see what happened their. The debate isn’t that these people exist, it’s what they are.

Modern Macedonia gained independence from Yugoslavia and promised to protect all Macedonians, also used Macedonian symbols claimed by Greece, and used maps of “United” Macedonia. This didn’t threaten Greece’s liberty but instead their national ideals. As such Greece is hardline against their nation having its name and seemingly it’s sovereignty.

xTheRealMunchkinx
  1. There is "The Republic of Macedonia" which is discussed to be renamed to "The Republic of Northern Macedonia" and there is a region in North Greece which is called Macedonia.
  2. Many Greeks see Macedonia as a part of Greece, because they have the region of Macedonia which is closely linked to Greek history back to the times of Alexander the Great. To acknowledge this and to solve diplomatic issues Macedonia wants ro rename to "The Republic of Northern Macedonia" in order to acknowledge the south Macedonian state in Greece
  3. To become part of the EU or Nato all of the members must agree. So if 26 of the EU states are pro Greece still can block Macedonia joining. However, there is a lot of pressure on Greece, because Macedonia is seen as an important country on the Balkan and is willing to rename its country.
  4. Russia is fearing a strong EU and a strong NATO. In the past they were worried by Baltic states or Poland joining NATO. Russia is fearing more US influence through NATO and a United Europe to have more political or economic impact then Russia. There are some similarities to the Ukraine which has also oppened up to the West and is strategically to close to Russia (obviously the Ukrain conflict has a lot of different reasons which all together led to the now ongoing conflict)

Maybe to let you understand how people in Macedonia feel. It would be comparable if the "United States of America" should be renamed in "United States of North America".

Finding an example to understand the Greek people is a bit more difficult. But imagine half of Texas was an independent state the other half was still part of the US. The independent state calls itself "Republic of Texas" and people still living in Texas in the US think: "Well i live in Texas too".

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