What significance do scholars attribute to the whole "European Liberty vs. Eastern domination" notion in Western Society? E.G.: "Molon Labe"/"Vienna 1683" and etc?

by Flowers818

I dunno how to phrase this properly, but there is a notion that permeates a lot of society, and I know it isn't a new one, so I hope this doesn't break the 20-years-rule.

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We idealize democracy and freedom as a Western concept, and tend to demonize things like, say, the Persian Empire. Our whole notion of the "Middle-East" is basically everything from Tibet to southern Poland.

We even pretend that Europe and Asia aren't the same continent, despite nothing really separating them.

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the New Zealand shooter (Thank God people aren't posting his evil name) had the whole notion written over his rifle and magazines.

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So... How do you educated folks tend to discuss that?

JimeDorje

I feel like you have an important question here, but I can't for the life of me tell what it is.

We idealize democracy and freedom as a Western concept, and tend to demonize things like, say, the Persian Empire.

Is it about the difference in perception of Western democracies vs. non-Wester (i.e. Asian and African) autocratic systems of governance?

Our whole notion of the "Middle-East" is basically everything from Tibet to southern Poland.

I'm not familiar with any definition of the "Middle East" that stretches from Tibet to Poland. At its greatest extent, "Middle East" can refer to everything from Pakistan to Morocco, marking its northern limit at the Bosporus (i.e. southern Europe, far from Poland) and its souhern limit at the Sahel. In a more restricted sense, the Middle East excludes Persia and northern Africa, being limited to the most extreme part of western Asia.

We even pretend that Europe and Asia aren't the same continent, despite nothing really separating them.

This has more to do with the cartogropher's perception of the world and marking off different territories with understandable labels and all. u/qed1 answers this here.

E.G.: "Molon Labe"/"Vienna 1683" and etc?

These also seem like separate questions dealing with

  • the history and historiography of the phrase "Molon Labe"

  • the significance and later cultural perception of the 1683 Siege of Vienna

  • the use and appropriation of historical symbols among White Supremacist, Neo-Nazi, and other White Nationalist groups

I guess in a way, this is how I'd tackle this subject as a historian. You threw a lot of more or less random topics in a single post. And there's no real single answer. Each element of what happened fed into the event. If we go back to the cartographer's division of Europe from Asia in the 6th Century B.C.E. then skip through Athenian Democracy, the rise and fall of the Roman Republic, it's cultural and military challenge with the Persian Empire, Justinian's rise and the perception of Rome as the City on the Hill, through the developing liberties of Europe versus the perception of Asia as being "less developed" philosophically and politically, the defeat and decline of the Ottoman Empire, the expansion of European Empires throughout America, Africa, and Asia, to the expanse of democratic (Western-style) governance, and the subsequent rise of White Nationalist Terror, we'll be here all day and still not get anywhere.

Not just as a measure of practicality (i.e. having a question that can be answerabl) but also as a measure of understanding, it's helpful to break down complex questions into smaller ones:

  • Why do we acknowledge Europe and Asia as two separate entities despite no body of water separating them? (see the link above)

  • Why is democracy idealized in the West over (primarily Asian) governments which tend to be more autocratic in function?

  • What is "the Middle East" and where does the idea come from?

  • What is the cultural and historical significance of the phrase "Molon Labe"? Why is it being adopted by White Nationalists?

  • What is the cultural and historical significance of the 1683 Siege of Vienna? Ditto symbolic appropriation by White Nationalists?

A more laser-tight focus on answers can help you to understand individual topics with more nuance, provide sources with which you can understand better the whole, and then allow you to step back and see a bigger picture in disparate topics tied loosely together.