We are Dr Marten Noorduin, Dr Matthew Pilcher, and Dr Siân Derry. We’ll be here on April 27th from noon GMT+1 onwards to talk about all things Beethoven and history, including compositional history, performance practice, reception, and other topics. AMA!

by Marten_Noorduin

Hi everyone!

We are three musicologists with an interest in the music of Ludwig van Beethoven. All three of us got PhDs from the University of Manchester (Sian and Matthew in 2012, Marten in 2016), and have since taken up positions at other universities. Next year is 2020, Beethoven’s 250th anniversary, and many institutions are now preparing events and publications related to the composer’s music and life.

We’ll quickly introduce ourselves:

I am Marten Noorduin, and I am a Research Fellow at Oxford University, where I work on issues related to nineteenth-century performance practice. My doctorate work focussed on Beethoven’s tempo indications, and I published several journal articles on that subject. You can read some of them here: https://oxford.academia.edu/MartenNoorduin/ I am now working on a variety of things, one of which is the ways in which music by Beethoven and others of similar stature was treated by musicians and editors in the mid and late nineteenth century for a themed edition of a journal.

I am Matthew Pilcher, and I am a Visiting Lecturer in Music at the Royal Birmingham Conservatoire, where I teach on a range of undergraduate and postgraduate modules and supervise research projects and dissertations at UG and PG level. My doctoral research examined the relationship between words and music in the songs and other vocal works of Beethoven. My current research focusses largely on issues of musical form and text setting in primarily solo vocal works in the Austro-Germanic tradition, with a particular focus on Beethoven.

I am Siân Derry and I am the Assistant Director of Postgraduate Studies and MA Musicology Course Director at Royal Birmingham Conservatoire. My interests include piano pedagogy and organology, and critical editing and performance practices of the 18th and 19th Centuries. My doctoral research examined Beethoven’s experimental exercises and figurations for piano, on the basis of which I am currently working on preparing an edition with commentary that relates them to the pedagogical methods of Beethoven’s contemporaries.

We are looking forward to your questions!

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EDIT: Many thanks to everyone who submitted questions! We are working on the last few answers now, but will be winding things down soon. Thanks, AskHistorians, it was fun! We should do this again sometime.

Georgy_K_Zhukov

The popular image of Beethoven I think is one of a unkempt, somewhat manic and crazy guy. How true to life is that, and presuming it isn't quite accurate, where does it come from?

lunarlynxgeek

Wow! Just the list of all your qualifications got me excited! Thanks so much for taking the time to do an AMA!

I might ask more questions, but first I wanted to ask two:

  1. Do we have any idea what Beethoven's writing process looked like? Did he have an "Order of Operations" for his compositions, or did he work from inspiration?

  2. How do you three find the field of Musicology and music history? I am considering continuing my education in order to become a music professor, and would love any thoughts/input/advice you might have!

Thanks!!!

[deleted]

It's well-known that Beethoven disliked the nobility, and was a fan of Napoleon until he crowned himself emperor.

Do we have any documentation of why Beethoven believed what he did about social class? He seems radical for his day so I'm curious what he was thinking.

SirVentricle

Thanks for doing this! Really nice to see more academics reaching out for these kinds of things.

Question: was there any connection between Mozart and Beethoven? I mean personally - in terms of exchanging correspondence or personal meetings - or musically? I know this might be super broad, so if you have any reading suggestions I'd be grateful for them too! Thank you all!

Iphikrates

Hi, thanks for doing an AMA with us!

Given the period you're working on, I wonder how much the study and composition of music in the early 19th-century German-speaking world was affected by the professionalisation of other arts and sciences at that time (most famously History). Was there a battle over whether music was an art or a science? Was there an "approved" way of writing music that became enshrined in the curriculum of music schools, or was it more free?

deVerence

First of all, thank you all for doing this AMA!

Beethoven was reputedly fond of coffee, but to what extent did the literary and political environment cultivated in Vienna coffee houses of the period influence his writing? Do we know if Beethoven ever discussed unfinished compositions or trialled potential motifs with fellow café-goers?

deVerence

And a second question:

Beethoven himself received a comprehensive (and I suspect traditional/classical?) musical education. Do we know what he thought about amateur and folk musicians? Beethoven lived and composed during the early days of national romanticism, when folk music was becoming a nostalgic-romantic ideal. Did he have much direct contact with lower-class practitioners of music, and if so, did he attempt to incorporate any lessons or influences from these into his own musical lectures and training regimes.

DGBD

I'd love to hear your thoughts and research on Beethoven's folksong settings. They're quite nice, but I wonder if they've been sidestepped in large part because they go against the idea of Beethoven as a serious, wildly original composer. "Folk songs" are often thought of as simplistic, although his settings are anything but. As I understand it, they didn't sell well at the time because they were too difficult for the amateur market. Is this accurate?

Given that Vaughan Williams, Copland, Bartok, and others are so celebrated for their arrangements of folksongs, it's funny to me that Beethoven has been overlooked in this regard. Do they just not "fit in" with the rest of his catalog, or the narrative we've built around him? Did he write them too early for nationalist movements to grab hold of them in the same way other composers have been elevated? Are they just not taken seriously because they're folk songs? Have they ever been popular, especially in their native countries? I haven't seen much evidence for it in Ireland at least; most Irish traditional and classical musicians I've talked to are surprised to learn he arranged so many Irish songs.

thatsanancapflag

What's your favourite piece by Beethoven?

Prince_of_Douchebags

Very honoured to have you three joining us for this AMA!

What are your thoughts on the supposedly "impractical" metronome markings Beethoven gave his pieces. Was his metronome faulty? Was it his failing hearing? Did he simply not care for performers of his music.

And do you think there is any credence to the so-called "double beat theory" of Wim Winters. I myself believe it's absolute junk but I would love to hear from an expert such as yourself on such a matter.

HarambeCantMeltSteel

We've heard about Beethoven's reactions to Napoleon, in terms of the third symphony and the dedication page being scrawled out. Do we know about Napoleon's views on Beethoven?

Gankom

Thanks for doing such a fascinating AMA!

What likely caused Beethoven to become deaf? How did he keep making such wonderful music during the lead up to, and afterwards becoming deaf?

Front_Ranger

What you guys are doing is super cool! What was the writing process behind Beethoven's Symphony No. 5? Was there an inspiration for it? To me it seems to change between nefarious-sounding and more peaceful and calm.

Azzure16

Dr. Noorduin - the issue of tempo has been a hot topic in my house lately as we’ve been discussing the conductor’s role and how much room he has for interpretation. As a Furtwangler and Grateful Dead/ jam band fan I’ve taken the position that every performance should be new: the conductor is an improviser and creator - not merely a metronome. I found the following quote from the Wikipedia entry for Furtwangler to support my position:

“Beethoven himself interpreted his own music with a lot of freedom. Beethoven wrote: "my tempi are valid only for the first bars, as feeling and expression must have their own tempo", and "why do they annoy me by asking for my tempi? Either they are good musicians and ought to know how to play my music, or they are bad musicians and in that case my indications would be of no avail".[155]”

Having cited the authority of authorities - Beethoven - I then rested my case. Do you think this quote is a fair representation of Beethoven’s view? How far can we take this?

some_lie

A really basic question - in what ways was Beethoven influenced by other composers, and in what ways were other composers influenced by him?

wching

Hi Marten, since your studies are on this topic, I’ll direct this to you— what are your takes on Op. 106’s infamous metronome indication? The idea that Beethoven had a faulty metronome (from Maelzel himself or other sources) just doesn’t seem reasonable to me. Why is it that Beethoven gave specific markings for (nearly?) all the String Quartets, but this remains the lone Piano Sonata which one is indicated? As a performer of the work myself, this is something I grapple with every time I come back to this monster...

porpentinepress

Nowadays there are a few pieces (or parts of pieces) by Beethoven that are almost universally known, even outside of the classical world: the opening of the Symphony No. 5, the "Ode to Joy," the first movement of the "Moonlight" Sonata, "Fuer Elise," maybe the little Minuet in G, maybe a few others.

Do we know when these pieces became common cultural property?

Vladith

In the decades following his death, German composers and writers with a nationalist bent celebrated Beethoven for his supposedly non-Austrian character, leading to his placement in the "Three Bs" of German music.

But in his lifetime, did Beethoven's non-Austrian origin actually matter? How well-represented were modern day "Germans" in the Austrian academy, and to what extent did their music differ from standard Viennese fare?

kagantx

To what extent was Beethoven a "Romantic"? Did he think he was doing revolutionary things, or did he view himself as part of the tradition of Haydn and Mozart?

soundbyte_mantra

I've heard the claim that Beethoven may have been black, or of black descent, given that he had the moniker "the Black Spaniard," his facial death caste seems to have African features, among other reasons. Honestly, I haven't read into much myself, but I'd like to know your take on it, if you have an opinion.

ProgressIsAMyth

Thank you so much for doing this AMA!

Beethoven's father and paternal grandfather were themselves musicians. What discernible influence, if any, did they have on the music of their son and grandson (respectively)?