Media Mondays: Age of Empires AMA

by Djiti-djiti

Hi everyone!

Last week our schedule was a little busy, so we moved this back a bit.

This week, we are encouraging you all to ask questions about the Age of Empires game series.
On top of that, our experts are encouraged to proudly declare themselves as such and participate in an Ask Me Anything.

If you have a question, fire away! Remember however, rather than nitpicking the game or its design, we made this series hoping to take a broader look at how history is portrayed in media, emphasising that which is usually left out, such as those who don't do the fighting, or disease, or complex trade networks, and so on.

Any culture or aspect of history covered in any Age of Empires game or DLC is welcome, including Age of Mythology for our folklore experts. In simple terms, this means ancient cultures, medieval cultures and nations of the European 'Age of Discovery' and its ensuing colonial and imperial consequences.

Next week we will have a look at the classic film Zulu, so now is a good time to go give it a watch.

Gankom

In age of empires 2 I spend 90% of my time cowering behind a wall of trees while the hard level AI rampages on the other side, unable to figure out how to path through and attack my walls blocking the small gap.

Which leads me to wonder just how important forests were as defensive boundaries. Obviously something like the Alps is far more of a natural wall, and forests do have a reputation for being dangerous (Teutoburg forest), but did any civilization actually treat heavily forested areas as a boundary or wall? Or was it mostly just a more dangerous battleground?

flopsweater

Does the priestly conversion chant "wololo" have any historical basis?

Zumuj

The 'War Wagon' is the Korean unique unit in Age of Empires II which features two horses pulling a carriage magically firing arrows. What have the creators tried to base this on historically? It always looks conspicuously out of place and I assume it's not entirely historically accurate as it seems very unintuitive in a battle scenario. Fun unit though!

CommodoreCoCo

In Age of Mythology, players must choose certain gods to represent them and receive unique benefits depending on their selection. Does this reflect an actual practice in antiquity where rulers would emphasize the worship of a certain god, or would local rulers generally acknowledge entire pantheons?

golf_war

Is there any evidence that La Hire was as psychotic as the Joan of Arc campaigns present him?

panic_monster

What exactly was the reputation of the Byzantine Cataphract? Was a Cataphract company as fearsome as AOEII makes it out to be?

And a related question: What exactly is the Teutonic Knight based on? The unit seems oddly specific.

LuciusAelius

In Age of Empires 3 one of the German unique units is a horse-drawn covered cart with men inside firing rifles. Is there any evidence of a military unit fitting this description being used in Germany in the early modern period?

Erezen

Do you think Age of Empires has had an important role in "de-Eurocentrifying" popular conceptions of history? Many civilizations that appear in-game have virtually no presence in pop culture outside it (Malians, Incas, Berbers, etc.) I can't really think of any other games, movies, shows, etc. that really give non-European/East Asian civilizations a fair shake in representation.

crrpit

How accurate is the depiction of priests' contribution to medieval society/warfare in AOEII?

eric3844

In the Hastings Scenario, the player, as the Normans, can obtain a large ammount of norse troops following the battle of Stamford Bridge. Is there any evidence of Norse troops defecting to William's army post Stamford Bridge?

conjyak

Music in Age of Empires as well as other games and movies/TV shows that are set in ancient times with themes of war and empire often sound like this, the main menu theme for Age of Empires. Where does this style or genre of music come from? Heavy drums, kinda jungle-y percussion, some human voice chants. Why do we, or why should we, today associate this kind of music with ancient empires whenever we hear it in the media?

I'm obviously assuming that ancient music was not like that, and that ancient music was probably extremely regionally disparate. What do we know about the music of antiquity (of any region of the world, I'm curious), especially with regard to war (music perhaps used to "hype up" your troops for battle) or government (music that perhaps communicated the grandness and power of government during ceremonies or rituals to the people)?

mottsauce523

In the Attila campaign, there's some discussion about how Attila met with Pope Leo I, and soon after he withdrew from his invasion of Italy. What are the best historical theories for what the Pope and Attila discussed, and is there any indication that the conversation itself led Attila to retreat?

I_am_oneiros
  1. In the DLC, the Malian unique unit is the Gbeto. But the Dahomey Amazon regiment which forms the basis for the unit was supposedly started only in the mid-17th century, putting it out of range for AOE II. In addition, the Dahomey empire was in Benin, quite far away from the Malian empire.

If the Malians were to have a unique unit from their own civilization and time, what would it be?

  1. The Arambai, a weapon used by the Manipuri cavalry, is a warfare staple of the Meitei people who were often at loggerheads with the Burmese. Is there any record of the Arambai being used by Burmese armies?

  2. Any good sources for reading about Bayinnaung's reign? It's one of the most fascinating acts of nation building rivaling some of history's great conquerors.

DarkPaladinX

A few Age of Empires 2 questions relating to China:

  1. There is a recurring joke within the AoE2 fandom where the Chinese do not get Block Printing, Hand Cannoneers, and Bombard Cannons in their tech trees (despite China historically known to have invented gunpowder, cannon, and block printing) while the Goths get Hand Cannoneers and Bombard Cannons (although it obviously meant for gameplay balance because the Chu-Ko-Nu is an absurdly powerful unique unit and the Goth's tech tree have very mediocre archers and siege) to point out numerous historical inaccuracies in the game. As a historian, do you find this be very historically inaccurate? Why or why not?
  2. And speaking of the Chu-Ko-Nu, the Chinese unique unit, in terms of gameplay, it's considered to be one of the strongest unique units in the game to the point that it's even strong enough to demolish siege rams (which have high pierce armor). In terms of how the Chinese repeating crossbow and the unique unit was presented in this game, how does it compared to the real-life application of the Chinese repeating crossbow?
  3. If the devs had implemented the Tibetans as a playable civilization in Age of Empires 2, how do you think the developers would have been portrayed them as a civilization (in terms of their tech tree, unique unit, and the potential campaign that would have covered the Tibetan Empire)? The devs mentioned in various interviews that they originally wanted to add this civilization in, but ended favoring more well-known civilizations such as the Indians and Koreans. I did a civ concept of them a long time ago, so I'm curious how the devs would have been portrayed the Tibetans in Age of Empires 2 if they had originally added this civilization in (enough though adding Tibetans would have gotten a banhammer for Age of Empires 2 in China)? From what I've heard, most Tibetans were generally nomadic, Buddhism played an important role to the Tibetans, and the Tibetan Empire army mostly consisted of cavalry soldiers that wore heavy armor.
King_of_lemons

was there ever a historical equivalent of a demolition ship rush?

BloodyDay33

Are the Khmer and Siamese different each other or similar? Because the Khmer civ in aoe2 appears to be the representative of the Siamese, but I read and Siamese had important kingdoms in the middle ages. I'm a bit confused with that

Ornlu_Wolfjarl
  1. I know that Ornlu the Wolf was completely made up. However, the game says at some point that the Mongols were born from a Blue Wolf. Is there any accuracy to this (as a folklore) or is it also made up?

  2. In the original AoE II, the German campaign features Frederick Barbarossa, leading Teutons. Was this true? Were Teutonic Knights in the service of German princes regularly?

  3. Again for Barbarossa's campaign, we are told a story about Henry the Lion resisting Barbarossa, and then later about Lombardy also resisting his rule. Were these stories real or fictional?

FullyK

In Age of Empires III, the campaign is centered around a secret order (The Circle of Ossus) who seeks to use the spring of Youth (or something like that) in the New World.

Aside from the mythical parts, can we imagine Europeans leaving their home for the Americas on the basis of what would today be a fairy tale (spring of Youth, El Dorado etc.)? Who would be these people?

BloodyDay33

Most people get confused with the inclusion of the Tatars as a new civ in the DE, because they see "Tatars" as a synonym of the Mongols, a civ that exists in the game since 1999, also with the Cumans, Someone said that they are Turks, Huns or even Magyars (which is 100% wrong for sure).

So my other question is, how the Tatars (culturally and ethnically) can be distint from the Mongols, and Cumans from the Tatars?

severus_iudex

Why can't the Goths build walls?

Skipp_To_My_Lou

In Age of Mythology, in the Nintendo DS version of the Greek campaign, Hades is set up as an antagonist. I remember from grade-school ancient history that "Ancient Greeks" (which I know is a lot of people over a long time period) would take certain precautions before uttering the god of the underworld's name, but did they ever see him as an opponent to mortals?

And if I can ask a semi-related side question, what about Thanatos, the personification of death, who was portrayed as a villain in God of War: Ghost of Sparta?

EDIT I know basically all of the Greek pantheon could be antagonistic toward at least some humans at least some of the time, so I suppose a better way of phrasing the main question is "Was Hades ever seen as a default bad guy?"

Yeshu_Ben_Yosef

The Saracen unique unit, the Mameluke, is depicted riding a camel and throwing scimitars. Is there any historical basis for this at all, or is it just orientalism?

Paulie_Gatto

The special technology for Japan in AoE 2 is Kataparuto (which is just Japanese for catapult) that allows trebuchets to load and unload faster.

Did trebuchets figure much in Japanese warfare (I don't recall seeing it much in pop cultural depictions in other video games). What type of siege weapons predominated medieval Japanese warfare? Is there any reason to justify AoE 2's special technology?

dept_of_samizdat

What does "wololo" translate to? And actually, is their a historical basis for any of the phrases you hear people say in the game?

TurmutHoer

In the Asian Dynasties expansion for Age of Empires III, Asian civilisations can recruit an assortment of European units through a unique 'embassy' building. Quite regularly, you can end up with European units in Asian armies fighting the armies of their home nations (i.e. Redcoats in the employ of the Japanese, fighting the British Army). Are there any real-life examples of this occurring in Asia during the game's time frame?

artertor

Why do Celts have powerful and durable siege weapons?

severus_iudex

Some civilizations are able to build onagers while others can build siege onagers (stronger than onagers). Was the siege technological knowledge so different among European tribes/civilizations in the medieval times?

JeezHades

Were the Hoyo priests real? As in, did faith influence who fought for whom?

MadnessBunny

Sort of a stupid question, I know some of the heroes you meet on Age of Mythology actually existed like Agamemnon and others but I always wondered if Arkantos existed too, or who was he based on? Also is the whole AoM campaign based on some legend? Heroes going from grecee to Egypt and then north? Or is more of a collection of legends? Or just straight up invented for the game?

Unicorn_Colombo

What irks me about AoE 2 is the portrayal of all Slavic people under a single umbrella civilisation, while Germanic people get a great variety of civs from different time periods (Goths, Teutons, Franks, Brits, Vikings). What is worse, the umbrella Slavic civ has a significant Russian feel, which I would say significantly misrepresent other nations.

My problem with that is that at one point in history, panslavism was hijacked by Russian Empire/Communist to help control its subjects. But thats beside the point.

Has this grouping some historical relevancy or is this just another example of a common western trope where every slav is Russian?

(this question might be a bit loaded, feel free to correct me)

Asinus_Docet

If you have any question related to Age of Empires and Joan of Arc or 14-15th century France & England, shoot! I may take some time to answer because of my work schedule, but I'll do it ;-)

severus_iudex

Why do Spanish villagers have more attack points? Is there any historical meaning to this?

severus_iudex

Why can Goths produce barracks units so fast? Is that a representation of their ability to find new recruits or train their units fast enough in the event of a war?

artdump

Why no black or brown people? Persians, Saracens, Mayans all just look white.

If you wanna talk about what is relevant today in what is absent in our depictions of cultures in games and media this is the perfect place to start. Game devs that can be bothered to add a mustang with grenade launcher but whitewash ancient civilizations.

  • for christ’s sake there was an African Kingdoms expansion that didn’t change a single skin tone anywhere besides the cover art.
hyphenomicon

All research in-game needs to be developed by the player allocating a set amount of time and resources to the chosen technology at the appropriate building. In real life, which, if any, technologies mentioned in the game were the product of such dedicated investments of time and resources by someone specifically setting out with the goal of creating them? (As opposed to emerging gradually over time via widespread, undirected, iterated improvement.)

Moose325

Is their any historical reason why the Vietnamese get the Imperial Skirmisher upgrade?

Schattentochter

Are all the phrases the workers and soldiers say in Age of Empires all historically accurate in terms of language?

Was "Wololo" at any point a real word?

TreebeardButIntoBDSM

In Age of Empires 3, there are a number of civ choices that didn't participate in colonizing the New World.

I am specifically curious about how the Ottoman Empire reacted to the discovery of the New World, and what factors led to the Ottomans not participating in the period of colonial expansion.

Asinus_Docet