Hi! I'm Keagan Brewer. AMA about Saladin's invasion of the Kingdom of Jerusalem in 1187!

by KeaganBrewerOfficial

In 1187, Saladin conquered the first Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, which ended Catholic control of (most of) the Holy Land, which had been established in 1099 at the end of the First Crusade. European leaders responded to Saladin's conquest by calling for the Third Crusade, which didn't commence until 1189. James Kane and I have recently published a critical edition and translation of what is probably the closest Latin text to the events in question. We are both affiliated with the University of Sydney. It is an anonymous text, but was written, apparently, by a man who was hit by an arrow through his nose, and a piece of metal was left stuck there for some time. Here's a link to the book:

https://www.routledge.com/The-Conquest-of-the-Holy-Land-by-ala-al-Din-A-critical-edition/Brewer-Kane/p/book/9781138308053

Ask me anything! I'll be here for the next three hours (9am to 12pm Sydney time, which is where I live). Any questions left over I will do my best to get to.

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EDIT: I'm off to a talk now. Thanks everyone for your questions! Keep posting and I'll get to as many as possible over the coming hours and days.

EDIT 2: Back from the talk, and ready to answer some more questions! I'll be here for another hour or so before I have to again rush off for class. I've got my green tea in hand (yum!).

YA7644

I hope this question is not too off topic. What has always intrigued me about Saladin is that he is mentioned in Dante’s Divine Comedy, where he is placed in limbo. How was he perceived? I would have thought he would have been an enemy of the Church

AncientHistory

Hi! Thanks for coming! When you were working on the Latin text, were you able to reference or compare with any texts from Saladin's side of the conflict?

funkyedwardgibbon

When I was an undergrad, one of my lecturers told the class that in many ways Saladin was more of a folk hero in the 'West' than in the Levant. Apparently it was Baybars who was remembered much better, to the point that when westerners like Kaiser Wilhelm visited Saladin's grave in Damascus they were dismayed at how it had been left to decay.

So I understand how Saladin's memory in the west developed- but is it true that he was ignored or downplayed in the Middle East, and if so why? He may not have driven the Crusaders out of their final strongholds, but he was the leader who recaptured Jerusalem.

dandan_noodles

Thank you so much for taking questions!

Working on an anonymous source like this, how much did you find yourself interpreting and analyzing the author behind the text relative to the text itself?

Bernardito

Hello! Thank you so much for doing this AMA.

As someone who is preparing for a major piece of historical investigation that will center around a semi-anonymous text (and that will also involve doing my own translation of the text!), I'm wondering if you have any general advice for someone setting out to translate and contextualize an anonymous (or in my case, semi-anonymous) text?

NotJohnWelbourn

Hi. Thanks for taking the time to do this AMA.

In what way has our understanding of Saladin, and the Third Crusade in general, changed in the last twenty years? Has there been a shift away from the 19th and 20th centuries narrative of the conflict?

sunagainstgold

Edition and translation in the same book is an excellent teaching (and language practice, LOL) tool, so first of all, thank you for that. :)

Second:

How has the number of times you worked through the text, and how closely you had to scrutinize it, affected your understanding of (a) the events it describes (b) your understanding of the writer? (I don't mean figuring out "who they were in real life," but more like, how they saw the world, what things affected their opinions, &c).

What do you think are the biggest puzzles left with this text (besides, again, authorial identity)? Like, if you could sit down with the chronicler over coffee (or I'd guess they'd prefer wine), what would you still want to ask?

Thanks so much for hosting this AMA!

corruptrevolutionary

The rivalry between King Richard and Saladin has become legend for nearly a thousand years but what did Saladin really think of the Crusaders capabilities, King Richard, and the 3rd Crusades failure (or choice, I’ve heard it both ways) to retake Jerusalem?

Sikander-e-Azam

Is there any discussion on the part of the Crusaders on what Saladin’s ethnicity was, or is he just grouped into a homogenous “Saracen” class?

I know ethnicity wasn’t as important in a time without nationalism or ethno-states (especially in a multi-ethnic place like the Middle East) but do any sources describe him as Kurdish, Seljuk Turk, Arab, etc. in origin?

albacore_futures

In Armies of Heaven, Rubeinstein argues that the first Crusade is best understood as an attempt by Christian crusaders to satisfy the conditions required for the return of Jesus and the end of the world. I imagine that, some 90 years after the fact, the fervent belief that conquering Jerusalem would initiate Armageddon had dissipated. You mention in other replies that at least one source you discuss saw Saladin's conquering of Jerusalem as God's will. How do these two concepts fit together, if at all? Was Saladin's conquest seen as proof that the First Crusade was built on a faulty premise, or was it seen as proof that, assuming the first crusaders were holy and devout, those who came after them had fallen away from the ideal in some way? If so, how?

tfox27

Thanks so much for your time!

Couple of questions regarding population size, density etc if that's OK?

  1. Roughly how big (population and physical size) was the city of Jerusalem in that period?

  2. Roughly what was the population of the wider kingdom of Jerusalem and how did it compare to Saladin's kingdom?

  3. Do we have any reasonably accurate sources for the size and composition (levies vs mercenaries and professionals, cavalry to infantry ratio etc) of the armies involved?

Thanks in advance!

NoiselessButter

Who was the farthest away landed vassal to send troops to the third crusade? , Did any like...welsh people show up?

sojayn

Cool AMA! This is a subject I know little about so I offer a choice of two questions to link in with things I do.

  1. What was the story behind his kindness to women after the win (was there a moral reason?) and was it only women Queen Sibyl who got mentioned in the texts?

  2. Healthcare. You mentioned the arrow wound, did you come across any old medical treatments or ideas that interested you?

hannahstohelit

Hi! Thanks so much for this AMA!

Not being incredibly knowledgeable about medieval Jewish history, I always got the general impression that Saladin's conquest of Jerusalem was, as the saying goes, good for the Jews. Is this accurate? What was Saladin's relationship like with the Jews of Jerusalem and the rest of the Holy Land? How many were there? I know that Nahmanides in the 1260s famously described seeing only two Jews in Jerusalem- I wonder how steep and fast the decline was.

It's also said that Maimonides was Saladin's doctor, which is something that I've read may not have been accurate (though he was definitely a royal physician for another ruler); did Maimonides in particular or the Jews of Egypt in general, who were, so far as I can tell, a sophisticated and wealthy community, have anything to say to Saladin about the Crusades/invasion or vice versa? (If you don't answer, this is making me want to go to the library tomorrow and check Goitein...)

Thank you for your time and effort!

gandamakceylik
  1. how accurate would it be to call Saladin, the sultan of 'Egypt'? Did he consider his state, the Ayyubid Sultanate, as the country of Egypt?

  2. Did Saladin have knowledge of Ancient Egyptians?

UrsaPrime

Is this specifically about the taking of the city of Jerusalem or does it include the events leading up to it? I've always been interested in Reynald of Chatillon and was wondering if he makes an appearance.

moose_man

Evening Dr. Brewer! I cited your recent book extensively in a section for my final MA paper about the religious ideologies of the Crusades. When I read your book was coming out just as I was about to start writing, I thought that it might be the "silver bullet" I needed to finish the paper and I really appreciate your hard work and excellent introductions.

Do you feel that the text has apocalyptic connotations? I thought that references to the fallen as 'blooming flowers' and the turning of seasons to summer might be a 'foreshadowing' by the author of the resurrection of the Kingdom.

Do you see the conquest of Jerusalem as an actual turning point in the history of the Crusades, or is it overhyped?

Katanas_Kazaam

Hi and thanks! Kind of a fanboy question here, in the movie “Kingdom of Heaven” Liam Neeson’s character teaches Orlando Bloom’s how to sword fight with the big long sword ( Anyone plz comment on actual sword name). He says to hold it two handed kind of in front of and slightly above his head, and to strike down.

Was that style used against troops like Saladin’s?

Maybe a better question is how did the troop skill matchup and comparison go between the two sides?

este_hombre

The leaders of the Fourth Crusade initially set out to target Alexandria as they believed it was the best path to neutralizing Muslim power so that Jerusalem could be taken. My question is thus on Alexandria and Egypt during Saladin's reign.

Culturally and economically, what power did holding Alexandria have to Muslims? What did Arabs during the 2nd Crusade say about the city in relation to the Latins?

My other question is about how did Saladin and co. describe Jerusalem and Palestine? Were their goals to rejoin the old Empire or to expel the Christians? Maybe even protect Muslims within Christian lands?

Sorry if that was more than one question.

officerpup

Thanks for the AMA!

Do you suspect any relation between this text and the chronicles of Ernoul or William of Tyre? Does this work cover any events which occurred before William's death?

Does the author express opinions about Baldwin IV or the regencies of Guy of Lusignan or Raymond III as Saladin began his invasion? Both sources I am familiar with (Ernoul and William) have very strong opinions about the situation and it would be enlightening to learn of additional perspectives.

Syringmineae

How accurate was the director's cut edition of Kingdom of Heaven?

TheKentuckyRifleman

How much power did the title "King of Jerusalem" hold compared to Richard the Lionhearts

aquatermain

Evening! As many have stated, thank you for joining us!

My questions pertain to my area of expertise and they may not be necessarily tangential with your research, but here it goes.

Regarding "international" relations (by the quotation marks I mean that naturally, we can't talk about IR back then in the contemporary sense due to the lack of defined nation States, but nations existed and interacted with each other nevertheless), their role tends to be associated in our oftentimes Eurocentric common sense, mainly with the Crusade. My questions are:

  1. What was the reaction amongst neighboring communities and nations to Saladin's conquest of Jerusalem?

  2. Did Saladin establish any specific strategic ties and relations with other nations during his time in Jerusalem? I'm aware of him having dealt with Queen Tamar the Great after she sent two delegations to negotiate favourable terms for Georgia, but I'd like to know if there were any strategically made decisions regarding foreign relations.

Total_Markage

Less than a decade before the first Crusade, the Seljuk Sultan Malikshah passed away essentially shattering the Great Seljuk Empire. But even while he was alive, there are writings about the difficulty the Sultan and even his predecessors faced controlling the various Turkic tribes. So my question is, how then was someone like Saladin able to consolidate the Turks to fight with him? What tactics or what sort of diplomacy did he use to unite them under his banner?

Lapsed__Pacifist

Hi sir, regarding the negotiations for the disengagement of the forces of Richard the Lionhearted and Saladin; was there really serious consideration to have Saladin’s brother al-Adil marry Richard's sister Joanna?

Were interfaith marriages among the ruling classes common in the Levant? Was there a precedent with this practice?

maproomzibz

This is more a general question about the Kingdom of Jerusalem itself. What was the government system of the kingdom like? Did they keep the administration system that was under the previous Muslim empires?

Also, how was the Muslim population treated under Crusader rule? Did Muslims and Christians (Western Europeans specifically) live and work together in peace? Are there evidences of Muslim and Christian common people being friends? Or were the Muslims persecuted?

QuadrupleQ

Hi I'm not sure if you're talking about Salah Al Deen Al Ayoobi but if you are, something then I've always wondered and get different answers from different people in the middle east was whether he was objectively and decent human being and moral when it came to dealing with Muslims of different sects. Most sunni Muslims I've met believe that he was a great leader and hail him for his treatment of Christians in a non nefarious and hospitable Manner. While most shia Muslims I've met generally don't view him in the best of light. They say that while he did treat Christians with dignity and respect, he was brutal and murderous in his treatment of his own people of different Muslim sects and some say he murdered millions of his own people or I would assume shia muslims.

Also, I'm not so important question but I remember reading a play called Nathan the wise by gotthold Lessing and it included the person named Saladin in the play. If you are familiar with this play was this based on a true encounter with Saladin or not?

Thank-you

Damaellak

How different would be the encampment of the Muslim in comparison of the Christian's at that time? What did they eat? Did they had any entertainment? Did they sang songs? What could we see as religious difference between both (like cultural apart)? How the nobles/leader would differ from the common soldier and how they treated them? Thank you for doing the AMAand for any information you could bring us!

Kalinin46

Thanks for the post, I’m currently taking a crusades course at my uni and just curious how Jonathan Riley-Smith and his works are perceived in the field? We’ve gone thru a lot of his writings so far about the first few crusades

tortorlou

What fact did you not get to share yet but you think is super interesting?

ViceroySynth

What was it like to live in the kingdom of Jerusalem before Saladin's invasion? Was it prosperous?

Seems to me like it would be one of the most interesting societies to see during the middle ages

CaptainMagnets

When you were doing this study, which part do you wish there were more information available on?

BarfTheChicken

How many troops did Saladin’s army contain ? What were they mostly ?

Brother_Of_Boy

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Did Saladin enjoy being the leader that he was and taking part in the actions that he took part in? Or did it wear on him?

What about the leaders of his enemies? Do we have any information about how they felt about their experiences?

ShrewArmies

I assume that you digitized the manuscript/text.

Did you do that yourself, and if you did, what program did you use?

Barrington-the-Brit

Hello! Thanks for doing this, I would like to ask, how did the European scholars of the time feel/react to the fall of Jerusalem, and how big a political event was it to the major Kingdoms of Europe, would people like Frederick I and Philip II even have cared?

Nessiefury

Have you ever been to Saladin's Castle in Syria? I went about 10 years ago and it was one of the most breathtaking places I'd ever been.

Ryker_888

In the title you said the word "invasion" then "conquest". I'm from the middle East and most people here would call it a "liberation". I'm interested in how historians actually choose which terms to use in these kind of things. Specially that it will probably be used politically at some point in our modern times.

Xumalia

Thanks so much for joining! My question is why the third crusade wasn't successful?

Sneaky_Triangle

Thanks for doing the AMA!

What happened in Jerusalem between the time of the capture by Saladin and the Third Crusade? Did he know there was probably going to be another crusade for the holy Land, and prepare for it?

bush-

What was the Kingdom of Jerusalem's (and other Crusader states) relationship with local indigenous Christians of the Levant, or "heterodox" Muslims (e.g. Ismailis)? Were Maronites and Melkites present, and did they fare well and collaborate with these Crusaders? What about the non-Sunni Muslim population, such as Ismailis - did the Crusaders have any opinion on the differences between Ismailis and Sunnis? Did they prefer one over the other, or were they just one monolithic bloc to them?

guileus

I think it was Thomas Asbridge who insisted on how the image of Saladin as a less cruel commander was not entirely accurate and that his sparing of lives of civilians in Jerusalem was more out of fear for the threat by Balian that they would fight to the death if not allowed to surrender. I think I recall him mentioning letters where he said he wanted to execute and kill Christians to portray himself as a defender of the faith.

Do you agree with this? Was there any chivalrous notion to the different sides (as in the classical romantic view of Richard Lionheart versus Saladin)? How do you think visions about the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Lionheart and Saladin have evolved?

Effigrecus

Hey! Was Saladin a Turk, Kurd or Arab?

Inevitable_Citron

Did you come across any texts linking the fall of Jerusalem to Saladin in 1187, to the final loss of Jerusalem to the Christians in 1244 with the conquest and slaughter of the city by the Khawarezmi Turks? Was the texted added to any others or did any others reference it?

aeyamar

Might be a little off the central topic. But I've been curious, has Saladin had any sort of nationalist cache with the Kurds either in the early modern era or today? If so how exactly is he viewed or discussed in that context?

prokifloki

What was the relationship between the byzantines and saladin's state?

LateralEntry

I've read Saladin was a Kurd. Are these the same Kurds as the ones we're talking about today in Syria and Iraq? (I mean, I know the ones from Crusaders times are all dead, but, like, descendants?) Was his army largely made up of Kurds?

CheeseSteak_w_WhiZ

Were they using the practice of flaying? Any famous cases of any1 meeting this horrible fate? What other torture methods were used?