Friday Free-for-All | December 06, 2019

by AutoModerator

Previously

Today:

You know the drill: this is the thread for all your history-related outpourings that are not necessarily questions. Minor questions that you feel don't need or merit their own threads are welcome too. Discovered a great new book, documentary, article or blog? Has your Ph.D. application been successful? Have you made an archaeological discovery in your back yard? Did you find an anecdote about the Doge of Venice telling a joke to Michel Foucault? Tell us all about it.

As usual, moderation in this thread will be relatively non-existent -- jokes, anecdotes and light-hearted banter are welcome.

Zooasaurus

While rummaging through old documents, i came across a short writing of mine from 2018 about Ottoman spies. It was intended for my friends, but we moved on and i forgot about the writing. So rather than just deleting it, i suppose i can post that here instead. Keep in mind though it's very short and rather lighthearted since it was intended for my friends (and a reason why i don't post this on sunday night):

So it's the 16th century, and for some reason you want to be a part of the Ottoman secret service. Idk, probably you have a personal vendetta against the Habsburgs, probably you’re part of a minority group that gets tossed around in Europe, or you have a time to spare. So with that said, what kind of skills and perks do you need and how do you join one?

For starters, look foreign. One advantage that the Habsburg intelligence has over the Ottomans was that their agents can travel rather easily, considering large numbers of Europeans in the capital and Christian groups in the provinces. The Ottomans can’t easily use a Turk or Arab because they can’t easily blend in European cities. That’s why, a lot of Ottoman agents in Europe are foreigners like Greeks, Jews, Italians, or disgruntled communities such as the Moriscos or the Neapolitan Fuorusciti. That said, some Turks were sent as spies, but this pales in comparison with foreign ones

Second, make sure you know other languages and possessed knowledge regarding Habsburg lands. At least Turkish and Italian or Spanish. You can learn the languages on your own, or maybe you used to live in Venice or Spain then defected, or maybe you learn Spanish by mingling around Spanish community in Istanbul like a certain Turkish agent captured in 1552 that caught spying in Salerno while pretending to be a Spaniard. In his interrogation, he said he learnt Spanish by befriending Spaniards in Istanbul. Knowledge about Habsburg customs, culture, diplomacy, and geography are mandatory, you don’t need to know all about them, the area you’re planning to be spying on is enough. Knowledge on cryptography and steganography is also a plus, though you probably won’t have those unless you’re born into a family of spies like the Gritti or Passi. Additionally, conversion to Islam, while not required may increase your chance of being recruited and open up bigger reward incentives in the future

Third, have a good job that gives you mobility. Unlike today, in the early modern period spying is not a professional job, and mostly a second job with the main job making it possible for them to start spying. Merchants, envoys, diplomats, translators, secretaries, sailors, soldiers and corsairs are typical job for Ottoman spies. Having a position inside Habsburg administration and institutions would also greatly increase your chance of being recruited, and often having it is mandatory. While you still can be an Ottoman spy without having those jobs, you have a fewer chance of getting a sensitive information and thus fewer chance of being recruited. Additionally, if you’re in the Ottoman army you could be sent on espionage mission. Engineers are the one most often sent in missions to observe enemy fortifications

Fourth, though not necessary, having a connection will be a great advantage that gives you bigger chance to be recruited or even guarantee your release upon capture. It could be a familial connection, maybe one of your relative has a position in the Empire in which they can recommend you, or maybe your father was a spy, and so when he died you were expected to replace him. For example, the Grand Admiral Hasan Pasha employed his cousin Livio Celeste to become his spy, albeit a poor one at that. Having a friend in high position would also get you in payroll pretty quick, as your friend can recommend recruiters about you

Now, assuming that you fit the criteria to be a potential spy, How do you get recruited? There are two ways, being approached or offer yourself. Unlike the Habsburgs, Ottoman intelligence system was quite decentralized, with each networks were headed by local governor, spymaster, or official with little intervention from the center. So, when a recruiter saw a potential on you, he’ll approach you, offers you a spying job, probably gives you a gift or small incentives to join, and if you agreed, give specific order and contact location. Sometimes, recruiters are deliberately from your own kind to further entice you to join, for example Manuel Enriquez, a trader-cum-spy from Granada who recruited Moriscos as spies. Sometimes, you had to be examined by the network leader to see if you’re trustworthy, with background investigations by recruiters. Probably going so far as taking your family member hostage to ensure your loyalty, but it’s an exception rather than norm.

A second way is to offer yourself as a spy. The authorities recruited spies from among those who fit their criteria, but it was often the spies who contacted the authorities and offered their services. If you want to offer yourself, you better show your capabilities and possess a valuable information or plot so the authorities would accept you. For example, in 1552 a Mudejar named Alonso de Ayala ran away from the fortress of Djerba to the Ottoman side to once again become Muslim in front of Turgud Reis. He would later be employed as a spy and provide the Ottomans with information he received from his brothers in the Spanish fortress of La Goleta

drylaw

I recently added a few books on colonial history to the Latin America booklist together with some new subcategories:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/americas/latinamerica#wiki_colonial_period

Mentioning it in case people want to check those and generally the fine Latin America booklist out - it exists and is really worth looking into!

Semi related just to mention a few books I added to the South Asia/India booklist a while back (after the Asia list overhaul, so adding it here):

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/southasia#wiki_general

Alright intermission over, have fun procrastinareading!

restricteddata

Earlier this week my article in Physics Today came out — it's a rip-roaring Cold War yarn about an eminent American scientist who lost the secret of the H-bomb while traveling on an overnight train. I had a ton of fun researching and writing it; so many lurid details!

subredditsummarybot

Your Weekly /r/askhistorians Recap

Friday, November 29 - Thursday, December 05

Top 10 Posts score link to comments
How accurate is Outlander's depiction of Louis XV's mistress and her revealing dress and piercings? Did such an outfit ever exist during Louis XV's lifetime? 6,349 70 comments
Taiwan and South Korea were brutal dictatorships until the 80s. Now they are shining models of democracy in Asia. What happened? 4,079 139 comments
What is fascism? 3,546 197 comments
How did Worcestershire sauce, an English product, come to be so ubiquitous in Japanese cuisine that simply the word for sauce (ソース) can be used to refer to it? 3,205 120 comments
How long did it take for Jews in hiding to start revealing themselves at the end of WW2 and what was their reception? 2,902 32 comments
The KKK is known primarily as a white supremacist and anti-Catholic terror organization, but it was a huge political force as well. Did the KKK take positions on things like the construction of railroads, unions, education spending, and other more "normal" parts of politics? 2,421 47 comments
Choctaw historian Rita Laws, Ph.D, says the association we have of Native Americans with hunting and fishing is an massive exaggeration, and that the Aztec, Mayan, and Zapotec children ate 100% vegetarian diets until at least the age of ten years old. Is this factual? 2,371 123 comments
Did people in the middle ages exercise? 1,741 62 comments
Why is the centre of the Arabian Peninsula often shown as unclaimed on pre-WW1 maps? 1,597 54 comments
How useful is Leon Trotksy’s analysis of the class origin and function of fascism as it relates to capitalism in crisis in “Fascism: What It is and How to Fight It” to modern day historians? 1,399 23 comments

 

Top 10 Comments score
/u/Ucumu replies to Choctaw historian Rita Laws, Ph.D, says the association we have of Native Americans with hunting and fishing is an massive exaggeration, and that the Aztec, Mayan, and Zapotec children ate 100% vegetarian diets until at least the age of ten years old. Is this factual? 1,555
/u/amp1212 replies to How did Worcestershire sauce, an English product, come to be so ubiquitous in Japanese cuisine that simply the word for sauce (ソース) can be used to refer to it? 1,385
/u/mimicofmodes replies to How accurate is Outlander's depiction of Louis XV's mistress and her revealing dress and piercings? Did such an outfit ever exist during Louis XV's lifetime? 1,249
/u/questcequewhat replies to Taiwan and South Korea were brutal dictatorships until the 80s. Now they are shining models of democracy in Asia. What happened? 1,246
/u/Georgy_K_Zhukov replies to The KKK is known primarily as a white supremacist and anti-Catholic terror organization, but it was a huge political force as well. Did the KKK take positions on things like the construction of railroads, unions, education spending, and other more "normal" parts of politics? 961
/u/ArmedBull replies to What is fascism? 915
/u/sunagainstgold replies to Did people in the middle ages exercise? 904
/u/THCarlisle replies to Why is the centre of the Arabian Peninsula often shown as unclaimed on pre-WW1 maps? 654
/u/commiespaceinvader replies to What is fascism? 571
/u/HippyxViking replies to What events are being referenced in the Cranberries song "Zombie", when the lyrics go "It's the same old theme, since 1916", and how are they relevant to the song? 413

 

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TheHondoGod

Do people around here watch Epic Rap Battles of History? Any thoughts on it, especially when it comes to the more history based ones?

JustinJSrisuk

This is a poll-like question so I’ll post it here instead:

To all the historians, archeologists, linguists, librarians, museum professionals, etcetera - which ancient cultures, geographic regions, specific historical events or eras do you feel are woefully under-studied, under-researched or just plain overlooked by most of the professionals in your field and deserves more attention or funding?

VoteMeDFL

(Recent History) Who was the first person to comment on this post?

jelvinjs7

I asked about this last Thursday, but got no responses—probably because it was Thanksgiving—so I figured I'd re-ask here:

I’m doing research for my school’s production of the Greek play The Birds, and my director wants to make the show about youth political movements. Does anyone have good books or resources about:

  • Youth culture in Ancient Greece (500-400BCE, primarily)
  • a history of youth activism, hopefully including stuff earlier than the turn of the 20th century but certainly including more modern/recent stuff.

Bonus points if there’s something about youth activism/politics in Ancient Greece, but I suspect there isn’t much on that matter.

voyeur324

Anyone have suggestions for a book about nuns? I am especially curious about the different roles assumed by different orders, why some were cloistered and others weren't in the 16th century.