Salvete omnes! I’m delighted and honored to have been invited to do this AMA. A few things about me to get us started. I’m currently a Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics at Miami University in Ohio. I received my PhD. in Classics from the University of Iowa in 2018. While I have called the Midwestern US my home the past decade or so, I was born and raised in Boston, Massachusetts. Also, I’m new to Reddit so please be patient with me.
I’ve been a fan of ancient history and classical literature for as long as I’ve been a metalhead. In the past couple years I began pursuing the reception of Greco-Roman antiquity in heavy metal as an area of academic research. In this I join a handful of other classicists, such as Drs. KFB Fletcher (LSU) and Osman Umurhan (New Mexico), who have begun working on this subject in the past decade or so. I recommend reading Fletcher’s fuller introduction to the topic on the Society for Classical Studies website (https://classicalstudies.org/scs-blog/kristopher-fletcher/amphora-metal-age%E2%80%94-use-classics-heavy-metal-music). Fletcher and Umurhan have also published the first edited volume on the topic just a couple months ago (https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/classical-antiquity-in-heavy-metal-music-9781350075351/).
My own contributions to this area of research take two forms. First is my work in academic contexts. Over the past year I have been slowly assembling a master database of metal songs based on Greco-Roman themes. So far I have catalogued over 1200 songs by bands all over the world, in nearly every subgenre (from traditional heavy metal to the most extreme forms of death metal), from the early 1980s to the present day. For this project I rely on the invaluable Encyclopedia Metallum, a crowdsourced database of every metal band with recorded material (https://www.metal-archives.com/). Among other things, this database allows me to observe trends in what I call “heavy metal classicism” across time and space, and to make quantitative claims. For instance, there is an observable spike in metal songs about the 300 Spartans in the years immediately following the release of the movie 300. This factors into discussions of how metal music responds to popular culture in its appropriation of classical themes. Thus far, this work has led to a 2018 publication in the journal Metal Music Studies on narratives of Roman persecutions of Christians in metal songs. As alluded to above, I am also currently working on the reception of ancient Sparta in metal, while I have also been looking at how metal’s ever popular use of “barbarian” themes intersects with narratives of resistance to Roman imperialism.
The second aspect of my work in heavy metal classicism is my public scholarship, where I strive to bring communities of metalheads and classicists together in appreciation for, and education on this topic. The main engine of this has been my Facebook page “Heavy Metal and the Classical World” that I launched a year ago (https://www.facebook.com/HeavyMetalClassicist/). I use the page to post relevant music and articles (and the occasional meme), as well as my own in-depth analyses of individual songs. These “Song of the Day” posts are archived on my “Heavy Metal Classicist” blog (https://heavymetalclassicist.home.blog/). On the Facebook page you will also see a pinned post containing a bibliography of scholarship on heavy metal classicism. I also syndicate some of this material to my Twitter page (https://twitter.com/MetalClassicist).
I am also happy to talk about other areas of my scholarship in this thread. I have long been a fan of the Roman emperor Julian the Apostate (or rather, the Philosopher), the empire’s last pagan emperor (r. 361-363). I have past and in-progress publications on the emperor’s writings as well as the writings of his proponents, the sophists Libanius and Himerius. Aside from his symbolism of resistance to the Christian tide and one of the great “what if’s” of history (would he have successfully stopped Christianity if he hadn’t died in battle?), Julian is a prolific and polymathic author of Greek oratory, Neoplatonic philosophy, epistolography, and satire. One of my publications, in the International Journal of the Platonic Tradition, discusses Julian’s knowledge of Greek medicine and its role in his approach to philosophy and political ideology.
Finally, I am also delighted to discuss anything to do with the legendary Seven Kings of Rome. My dissertation, and future book (I hope), examines how the memory of the original Roman monarchy persists in the Roman imperial period, especially in historiographical works. I get a real kick out of comparisons between kings and emperors (I once attempted to line up every US President with a Roman emperor but abandoned the idea for good reasons).
I should note that by trade I am a classical philologist, and not an ancient historian. While I have a competent grasp of the historical narratives of Greece and Rome, and the methods of historical inquiry, my training is primarily in the literature of these periods. Therefore I’ll have much more to say on the literary accounts of, say, Romulus’ reign than of the archaeological evidence for the founding and historicity of the monarchy.
Thank you for your patience in reading this opening post. Ask me anything about my work or my love of the music. I’m also happy to discuss how I integrate my research into college-level teaching.
Also, just a heads-up: I’ll be taking a break for a couple hours around 4:30 Eastern to watch the Patriots-Chiefs game. Sunday rituals are sacred.
How is your focus/linking of heavy metal into your works received within more classic academic circles?
And more importantly - What's the best album about the romans, and why is Primordial - To the Nameless Dead?
Hey, Dr Swist. It's Koger. I have three questions for you:
I'm not sure if this is totally in your wheelhouse, but I thought I would throw it out there. Stoicism seems to be gaining a foothold in popular culture, especially among young males. It's not uncommon for me to see one of my friends post a quote from Marcus Aurelius or somebody along the same lines. What do you think of this, and do you have any concerns about it?
I believe you play heavy metal in some of your classes (correct me if I'm wrong). How do your non-metalhead students respond to it? Are they into it?
What are some metal bands that "get it right" in terms of classical representation? What are some common mistakes bands make in the same regard? (I'm expecting they frequently get the language wrong)
Hi Professor Swist, thanks for joining us!
As a non-metalhead I'm still aware of the traditional focus in metal on Nordic history and/or the Vikings, often with quite stereotypical views. Have you found some tensions between bands (or their fans) focusing on Rome and those with a more Nordic focus? Or can metal bands work on both Nordic and Roman themes because of the supposed pagan backgrounds? Thanks in advance.
When you're looking at Greco-Roman themes in metal songs, do they focus on any particular period or aspect of Roman life? The conflict with "barbarian" peoples, particular wars, gladiatorial combat, etc.?
Hi, thanks for doing this AMA with us! This is a bit of a meta question about reception I guess, but as a scholar of Greek warfare I notice the same thing you flag up in your post: when big shows or movies come out, suddenly there's a lot of public interest in certain periods and events (like Thermopylai after 300). So I'm wondering, to what extent is Antiquity in metal music a response to pop culture, rather than Antiquity itself? Are there a lot of "original" themes and readings or are these bands mostly giving their own versions of the stories that are currently being retold?
Didn't read everything yet, just wanted to let you know to check out the band DGQR on youtube. It's a technical grindcore/death metal project by a friend of mine with a major in both history and classical guitar, dealing with Ancient Rome.
He has a song about Caligula's complete madness for example.
Livy portrayed Rome under Romulus as a haven for thieves, exiles and outlaws who were sufficiently shunned that they had to kidnap their wives. Were the Romans proud of their lowly origins, or was it something they only grudgingly acknowledged?
Do you think that Julian was a victim of treachery by a Christian soldier on his own side, or did he fall to an enemy weapon?
Also, I assume as a fan of Julian that you have a magnificent beard. Is that the case?
This. Is. Beautiful. As a metalhead and history lover, I'm amazed. On a somewhat similar note, I've always been interested in the connection between metal imagery and Romanticism. Currently, I'm reading Rock and Romanticism by J. Rovira.
Question: Do you know any bands that use decent Classical Latin or Greek language in their lyrics (not just episodically, but on a constant basis)? Thank you.
Yeah, that's cool and all, but what's your favorite Manowar album?
Do we have any archaeological evidence for the existence of Rome's kings? Or do we just have accounts of their reigns from e.g. Livy?
Livy mentions how they discovered the tomb of numa and with it a collection of books, encased in wax, which they burned. Is there any speculation regarding what those books contained? His personal dieties? And were there ever any other examples like it?
Hi Jeremy! Just wanted to say that your work sounds fascinating and to congratulate you on all the professorship! (Also, we went to HS together)
Hey! I'm gonna take advantage of this AMA as an aspiring fiction-writer. My first book I have set in an Eastern Roman Empire inspired kingdom. It's the remnant of a great empire styled after Rome. The government was infiltrated and taken over by vampire and they secretly run the kingdom "blessed with immortality by the gods". The main protagonist is going to be a soldier in an elite fighting/policing force. They are secretly vampires. It's going to be a boots on the ground army book. Anyway. What are some aspects and details you feel are essential to Roman life? The army? Nobility?
I'm definitely gonna delve into this music while I write!
There is a lot of metal that uses material from Greek and Roman myths, e.g. Symphony X's the Odyssey. But musically they are all firmly grounded in classical harmony etc. Do you know any bands/songs that take musical concepts from the antiquity as well, like having their lyrics in hexameter/pentameter or harmony based on whatever is known from ancient Greek music?
Hello,
Are there any metal songs related to lyric poetry? Any songs pay homage to hendecasyllabic, or dactylic? Is there a metal Metamorphoses?
I was wondering, is there a trend you find with certain genres of metal being more accurate vs others? Or is it just kind of a mismatch?
Do you think the popularity of bands like Sabaton have increased the amount of historical based metal?
How accurate do you find the band Rebellion? Most of their stuff focuses on Vikings/Norse History, but they all have the history of the Saxons as well. Specifically I was wondering on the song “Slave Religion” would that viewpoint be a common one, in regards to Norse Mythology vs Christianity?
Dear Dr Swist, I have read Fletcher’s introduction with great joy. The inclusion of Virgin Steele hit the nail right on the head! Especially since it's one of my favorite albums.
From what I have observed as a metal enthusiast and historian in training is that a lot of metal concerning certain people or cultures, like the Vikings, Mongols, Gauls, Saxons, Celts, and Sami is based around their respective folk music. A lot of unique vocalwork and instruments gets used that create a unique feeling for every culture that folk metal encompasses. But when I look at a lot of Roman/Latin influenced music it's a lot of death, black, and power metal. This can also be extended to ancient greek influenced metal from what I've seen. So my question comes down to: why is there barely any folk metal that sings about the Roman Empire
And what could Roman folk metal do to sound unique? What kind of unique instruments or vocal work could make them "roman".
What do you think can be done to encourage the general public to engage with/respect history as part of their wider world view?
I often find that many people are so caught up with current events and pop culture that they fail to appreciate or truly understand everything that has come before, and how that is directly tied to so much of what we do today.
Edit: also, would you consider Romulus and Remus to be literal Historical figures? They seem to be on the cusp between Myth and recorded history so I’d love to hear where you stand on that.
Hi! What are your thoughts on Gore Vidal's novel 'Julian'?
How is classical philology defined in the Americas? As in some European countries it (still) encompasses the whole field of ancient studies (as long as it uses language as a tool).
And has your geographical location caused any inconveniences in your studies of ancient Rome? Critical editions are probably good enough these days? No need to fly to see any codexes etc.?
What were the main achievements of each of the 7 kings of Rome?
Salve!
Would you say that any of the seven kings stands out as a plausible historical person (vs. a legend)?
As a bonus question: Have you read about the Brown's excavations of the Regia? If so what do you think about pottery sherds with the inscription of "REX"? (in terms of significance)
I'm interested in what, at the time of Julian, influenced the decisions of individuals to be Christian or Pagan. Were there institutional biases? Did it make life easier? Did it matter where you were brought up? And how much was influenced by the philosophy and spirituality of the time?
Hi! Lots of metal bands seemingly nail that norse or celtic sound and feel. What was ancient roman music like, and do modern bands manage to evoke that?
Hi, I am a classics undergrad (studying in london) and I just wanted to say how totally inspired I am by reading this post. I'm into Greek theatre, especially Aristophanes, but I prefer the history of Rome. I guess it's easier to say that I love the literature of the ancient world as a whole, but prefer Roman history to greek. Anyway, I have 2 questions for you.
And 2) How do you weigh the different bands contributions to the genre/area up effectively? Iron Maiden for example are far better known than some of the other bands you've mentioned here so I was wondering how that impacted your research.
What is the actual historical number of Roman kings? I remember reading Eutropius' Brevarium in Latin class and my teacher mentioning that the kings were likely composites of multiple leaders each.
Professor Swist, first of all, I want to say how much I admire you. It's really incredible to see someone who is so knowledgeable about the subject also be able to shoot the shit with random people about specific bands.
In that vein, I have to try my luck, of course. What are your opinions on Ex Deo? This band, especially their last album about the Punic Wars, will always hold a place in my heart. It's obvious how passionate the band is about the topic and they manage to capture certain scenes so well. "Crossing the Alps" comes to mind. I'm curious as to whether they've come up in your research in any way.
They've got a few puns or cryptic lines that, when I explored them to my utmost, have seemed to imply that the band is pretty knowledgeable.
Hi Jeremy. Not a question, I just want to recommend the SA black/doom band Ophiuchi, who's music is about the ancient Greek Underworld https://ophiuchi.bandcamp.com/album/bifurcaria-bifurcata.
Firstly: Any recommendations for books about the life of Julian II? I'm not especially familiar his life or works, but you inspired me to read the wiki page, and now I'm intrigued.
Secondly: I'm not that much of a metalhead myself, but do you have any thoughts on how classical influences in metal interact with the "volkisch" nationalist narratives present in much metal Music, especially by bands from Continental Europe? I'm thinking here not only of the prototypical Scandinavian "viking metal" subgenre but also bands like Therion or Eluvite.
Hey! This just reminded me of a relatively unknown German deathcore/grindcore band that was called "Take Back The Roman Empire". Just in case you haven't gotten that one yet.
I am looking to buy Roman coins on etsy. How reliable do you think the accuracy of the object and dating might be?
Salve Dr. Swist!
I know I’m late to the party, however I hope you see this! It’s not so much a question- but I’m a current MA student in classical philology (I’m also more of a Hellenist and historian, however) at Bryn Mawr College. I have your new book with Dr. Umurhan on preorder at my school’s library, but I’ve read the introduction on Google books and some of the previous papers Professor Umurhan has published, so I have an idea what the book covers.
However, I’m also a huge fan of melodic metalcore and prog metal, two subgenres of metal the Encyclopaedia Metallum willingly ignores, according to their stated definitions of metal. To each their own, of course, but I’m hoping I can contribute with my own scholarship, and fill in some studies on classics and metalcore! It seems to me that while the genres you and your peers study are more often in the retelling business, I think the genres I listen to tend to take a more personal and interpretative approach to myth and history. I recently submitted a potential paper I have to the grad conference at OSU studying a song about Andromeda (by the metalcore band Erra) that portrays, to be honest, a super weird version of the myth. I’m hoping I’ll be able to present in the spring and lay out something both similar to and step away from what you have covered!
So I just wanted to say, we have totally different tastes in music but I’m enjoying following the work you’re doing and hoping to take some cues in approach when I finally get to read the new book!
I think this ama is already over, I just want to add my point of view as well. Or rather my experiences in the same field. When I was at university I wrote a paper about history in heavy metal music and possible ways of using it for history classes in school. Sadly the persons grading it did not give it a fair chance (IMHO), which also showed in the way they talked about it and how they tried to make me change my subject, saying that this topic isn't a serious one for science.
Since I have become a teacher I actually tried to turn theory into practicality and used different sorts of songs for school. Metal music did not work well, since right now pupils are more into hip-hop. I also used hip-hop in policital science classes and it works perfectly. So far it has been the best way to engage my pupils in the topics discussed. On the other hand it requires much more preparation and hours overall compared to "normal" lessons.
I am also interested if you had any problems with the "eliticism" on metalarchives. Since they have a rather strict definition on what is metal and what is not, some bands might slip under your radar? Or was that not the case? I don't like metalcore and I assume that there is not that much metalcore with historical topics, but there might be some?