Academic level answers should not be free

by Keith227

I believe this is a meta post, and should not be deleted. There are good intentions behind my criticism.

We know how much time a 6 paragraph academic level answer that meets this subs guidelines take. We know people are using these replies to complete their schoolwork. Far more than people who are asking simply to satisfy their thirst for knowledge. And the strict guidelines encourage this practice.

You would not expect a college professor or assistant to work for free. There are online resources that cater to students who need help. They receive fair compensation for their time.

If a grocery store decided to give their products away for free, all the other businesses would suffer. I hope you understand the point i’m making.

I’m sure some will disagree, but please don’t snuff out my post. Freedom of speech means letting the person you believe is totally wrong, voice their opinion. Freedom of speech doesn’t only apply to people you agree with.

mimicofmodes

We know people are using these replies to complete their schoolwork. Far more than people who are asking simply to satisfy their thirst for knowledge.

I think your pessimism and low opinion of our userbase is quite unfair. When we suspect that users are asking for homework help, we remove their questions. Sometimes this is because we check their post history and see them talking about taking a class in the subject, and sometimes it's just because the question sounds like something a teacher would set for an essay topic. Do some rulebreakers scoot through? Probably, but there's no reason to think that the vast majority of the dozens of questions we get per day are secretly for homework.

You would not expect a college professor or assistant to work for free. There are online resources that cater to students who need help. They receive fair compensation for their time.

We don't expect anyone to work for free - this sub runs on a voluntary basis. If people with expertise choose to write answers here, it's up to them; they are not pressured into doing it for a line on their CV or to be seen as "active" in their department. I would also note that the mods answer quite a lot of questions ourselves and also do a lot of, well, moderation of the sub, also for free. Maybe you're including us in your point about free labor, but it really feels as though you're blaming us for taking advantage of others here.

hannahstohelit

As both a flair and a mod... would it be nice to be paid for writing answers? Sure! But that's not why I write.

On a personal level, I write because, despite loving history, I don't work in the field and it gives me a chance to flex my muscles. Other flairs and mods ARE historians and get a chance to continue doing what they love in a different kind of setting than the classroom or an academic journal. On a communal level, we want to promote good history, well-researched history, and interesting history, whether by writing it ourselves or, just as importantly, encouraging those of our not-yet-flaired participants in their own writing. We're here because we want to be.

As u/mimicofmodes mentioned in her comment, we do screen for homework questions, and we don't think that most questions are homework; they're much more likely to be related to current events (within group rules), pop culture, etc. In that case, it's very important to us to give accurate, sourced context to put such things in perspective, rather than let misinformation spread. And yes, that's something that's important enough to enough people that we will choose to take time out of our lives to write researched and quality content for this sub.

These are things we want to do. Not that we don't appreciate thanks, or upvotes, or encouraging modmails- we love all of those things! But we don't in any way shape or form consider ourselves competitors to homework "help" sites (which are plagiarism and dishonest on the part of students). If in this post you're trying to make a case for why we as contributors should be paid, that's very sweet of you, but unnecessary; if you're trying to argue that our existence is somehow devaluing essay cheat sites on the free market, I don't know what to tell you. We're not going to start charging for content; we're also not going to downgrade the quality of our content to make it fit some arbitrary standard for what's acceptable as free content. We just aren't.

eksokolova

Just to clarify, are you saying that AskHistorians should close up shop?

AncientHistory

I’m sure some will disagree, but please don’t snuff out my post. Freedom of speech means letting the person you believe is totally wrong, voice their opinion. Freedom of speech doesn’t only apply to people you agree with.

I think the others have addressed the main point of your post, but I'd like to address this one. Freedom of Speech is not an all-encompassing right to say whatever you want wherever you want. In the United States of America, for example, there are entire categories of speech which are not protected - such as obscenity - or subject to legal restriction (slander, public endangerment, matters of national security, hate speech).

AskHistorians is a curated space. It is quite literally designed that way: our moderation is what separates us from subreddits like r/history and r/askhistory. By participating in this subreddit, you are de facto agreeing to those rules too.

We largely promote the free exchange and expression of ideas, but there are restrictions for the betterment of everyone. We try to keep content on-topic, we have submission guidelines, and we have channels for contacting the mods and appealing moderator decisions.

We do not allow hate speech, including but not limited to racial pejoratives or Holocaust denial. There are uncomfortable subjects about the past, and we get many questions about rape, pedophilia, slavery, racism, genocide, torture, etc. All of which are ideas that we don't agree with, but which can be subject to legitimate historical inquiry - so long as they are not carelessly or deliberately phrased in a manner to discourage others from the subreddit, or to spread doctrines of antisemitism such as Holocaust denial.

It is a tricky business, and moderators have spent quite a bit of discussion on approving or disapproving threads that walk the line. More often than not, I would say, we ask that the redditor rephrase and repost their question in such a way that it can be answered without making this an uncomfortable space for other redditors.

Several months ago, for example, a redditor asked us if we would label all questions regarding rape with the NSFW tag, so that they could browse the subreddit more comfortably. While some of us had been doing this on our own, the idea to systematize the process with a script was a good one, and was quickly implemented.

There are quite a lot of questions that are posted here professing ideas about history, society, and language the mods disagree with. We don't remove them just because we disagree with them. We remove them if they violate the rules. That's the whole point of the subreddit.

By posting here, you implicitly agree to abide by our moderation. We do allow discussion on our moderation and the rules of the subreddit, and sometimes those discussions do result in changes. But please understand that moderation is the point.

wotan_weevil

You would not expect a college professor or assistant to work for free. ... If a grocery store decided to give their products away for free, all the other businesses would suffer.

Ideas are not groceries. There is an old tradition in history, science, and other academic fields of ideas being given away. The sharing of ideas and data in science has driven much of the development of science - other science "businesses" are helped, rather than suffering. While there is competition in science to be first, and there is secrecy at times in the interests of national security, generally science runs on cooperation rather than competition. Indeed, unless you make your ideas public - giving them away - your achievements will not be recognised, and you will not be the "first", even if you had the idea first. First publication trumps having the idea first (first invention matters for patents, but note that a key idea behind patents is to give the ideas away).

Not being a professional historian, if I was to write an academic paper in history, I wouldn't be paid for it. Indeed, some journals would ask me to pay publication charges to publish my work. While many journals require paid subscriptions for print or online access, the public is usually free to walk into a library that subscribes and read the papers. The ideas are still given away. The effort of writing a history paper is far greater than the effort of writing a good answer here. They both pay the same: zero.

When I publish in my own field, I don't get paid for the papers. I am paid a salary, to teach and research and for administration and service. This pay doesn't depend on how many papers I publish (although my future pay might depend on it, since promotions are influenced by publication). I sometimes pay publication charges. Where copyright agreements allow, I make the papers available on preprint/eprint servers, where readers can download them for free. If I give my ideas away, as widely as possible, more people can make use of my ideas, and are more likely to cite my work. I can benefit from this professionally. If I can show that people are using my ideas, it shows that my work has impact and quality. This can help with promotions, job-seeking, getting grants, etc. People who use my ideas can benefit - they don't need to repeat what I have done (e.g., spend 2 years developing software that I have made available for free), but can build their work on top of my work.

Freely sharing ideas is win-win. The grocery store analogy fails. Ideas are not consumed like a loaf of bread. They can be used, and passed on augmented rather than diminished.

Klesk_vs_Xaero

While I understand your concerns - and I am sure most regulars in this sub, especially those who actually practice or make a direct experience of an academic environment, are very mindful of the need to maintain the value (economical as well) of their work - I feel you may be somewhat overlooking the fact that the answers posted here are not, in their substance and for the most part, what a college professor or assistant do in their regular work.

For most people, this seems to be a way of branching out, reaching a different audience, sharing concepts and ideas they may not be able to in their regular occupation. It's different - at least coming from my modest personal experience - and, as a whole, flairs and mods seem to envision this as an additional, volunteer and free, opportunity, not an alternative to their work in education or research.

I have received help and assistance many times in my education experience - help and assistance which wasn't paid for, strictly speaking (as no one forces an assistant to provide you with extra hours, papers, advice, etc.) - and this fact has never led me to underestimate the work and skills of the people who did. Someone may derive the wrong impression perhaps, that those things come easily, and that "free of charge" means "of little value", but that would be their mistake, and I am not sure the people writing the answers should, or wish to think that way - rather, they may assume that their efforts and dedication are the best way to prove the value of what they do.

Last, in so far as doing like any other sub, aside from the obvious observation that those places already exist, and that therefore doing that would negate entirely the point of this one, I have to admit that, when I try to put together an answer, I do care about the way I represent people and episodes from the past - regardless of whether the reader does, or what I may assume about that - because they matter to me. I would not wish to post "poor quality answers" for free, at all.

Astronoid

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. That r/askhistorians should charge for content? That quality answers should not be required? Can you explain your point in a simple sentence?

Georgy_K_Zhukov

So should I give you my Venmo, or do you prefer PayPal?

Keith227

I respect the fact that you make an effort to assess the intentions of the person asking the question, and weed out the ones you believe just want someone to do their homework. I didn’t know that. Thats good. And I think its great that people enjoy taking the time to give their answers. I get satisfaction from helping others. I won’t toot my own horn and talk about things I do to give back to my community. But I don’t want to help those who take advantage of ones generosity. I encounter these types more frequently than I would like.

Since we can’t truly know the intentions of the person asking the question, I think by default, people should not spend more than 10 minutes giving an answer. And people should give any answer that has correct data.

I see these great answers that I know took a lot of time, and often I don’t believe the person receiving the answer are as appreciative and grateful as they should be, considering the amount of time that was given.

I also see a lot of questions that are not answered, because people can’t or won’t devote the time necessary to meet the standards.

Perhaps I am being too pessimistic. But there’s no denying the many unanswered questions, and the homework seekers.

Thank you for allowing this discourse and not deleting it.