I just finished watching Waco on netflix. It felt like I was watching an anti-government video, showing only the good side of the Branch-Dividians, and only the bad side of the ATF/FBI. Can someone explain the Waco seige, and say how accurate the events portrayed are?

by nw342
Harms88

Waco was a siege that lasted over a month (Feb. 28-April 19. 1993) by Federal agencies after The Branch Davidians religious group lead by David Koresh was reported to be stockpiling weapons and an affidavit was provided corroborating the story. There was other issues that had arisen as well, such as claims of sexual abuse, the fact that the group had ex-convicts within (ex-druggies) and National Guard overhead flybys revealed a hotspot that was believed to be a meth lab.

Most of the sexual abuse charges (especially against the children) hadn't been proven prior to the attack (although, there was testimony to support it). Also, the Davidians had proper paperwork on all their weapons, including a member of the compound who had a federal license to deal firearms. Local law enforcement was on good terms with the Mount Carmel community and the Sherriff even advocated that the agencies go talk with them.

When the ATF and the other agencies rolled up, they were armed to the teeth and no one is quiet sure who fired the first shot. The scenes of the government agencies hitting the compound with floodlights and using loudspeakers to bombard them with noise is all documented fact. The final assault on the compound wasn't simply a martyrdom though, as the Branch Davidians fought their attackers. The use of military grade smoke grenades was approved for the final assault, partly because of reports of child abuse going on in the compound (which the FBI Hostage Rescue Team later denied that there was any signs of abuse on the children).

What the show doesn't show (besides the final gunbattle), was that David Koresh, when he originally called the police, began a bibical rant that left the police dispatcher confused on what he was even talking about. According to government autopsies performed, at least 20 of the 76 who died on April 19 were either mercy killed or murdered by other Branch Davidians.

The show is reasonable accurate and doesn't try to go out of it's way to be horribly inaccurate like other shows on historical topics. The problem with Waco, and trying to depict it, is that it's hard to make a very balanced show on it. You either have In the Line of Duty: Ambush in Waco, in which the film writer, Phil Penningroth claims to be pro-ATF "propaganda" or Alex Jones's "America Wake Up (Or Waco)" which is all about Waco being a governmental conspiracy. It's usually either pro or anti-government and it's been difficult for some reason to give a middle ground.

Much of the problem has to do with just how controversial the whole situation is, and there isn't even consensus on the evidence. Some independent investigators after the Siege were pretty certain the ATF, National Guard and FBI had actually tampered with the area to bury much of the evidence of wrong-doing, while the image of a M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle taking part on the assault on the final day has been debated whether it had a flame thrower attached to it and if they ran over a Branch Davidian and dragged their body under the vehicle's tires. There is also the issues of the fires themselves. The government claims that those in the compound started the fires but those Branch Davidians that escaped not only deny they started it, but blame the attackers as purposefully starting the fires to burn them out.

It's a messy tragedy that we'll never know the full truth of what happened, no matter how accurately a show tries to portray it.

Edit 1: I have been asked about what exactly is "military grade tear gas". I did address it as a response but those who want to know: The closest I can find to what exactly would qualify as "military grade", as what I've read on Waco called it, is that there are 3 grades of tear gas, CN, CS and CR. CS is the one most law enforcement uses and CR, which is probably the military grade, is known to be between 6 to 10 times more powerful, and can kill within minutes in a poorly ventilated room.

ron_leflore

While you wait, here's a comment by /u/maxshaferlandau on the Waco siege:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6ohm3e/comment/dkhof7t

sawmyoldgirlfriend

From what I remember watching the series a few months ago, the series made it seem like Koresh created the Branch Davidians without delving into the fact that it was started by a man named Victor Houteff in 1930. They made it seem like "Davidian" was related to "David" Koresh himself. Gary Noesner, portrayed by Michael Shannon wasn't involved the entire time, only the first 25 days. Authorities didn't raze the area after the siege, in actuality parts of Mount Carmel compound are still standing today.

Other than those small details the series is actually pretty accurate. The Guardian called it “re-enactment rather than dramatization, presenting these characters and images without developing them beyond their factual bullet points.” A writer for Forbes said it “ultimately suffers from feeling more like a history lesson than a drama.” And The New York Times said it was “a workmanlike summary of events that paints a largely, some say excessively, sympathetic portrait of Koresh and his followers.”

The filmmakers based the series on a pair of books by participants from inside and out of the siege — Noesner’s 2010 Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator and the 1999 A Place Called Waco: A Survivor’s Story by David Thibodeau, one of nine Branch Davidian survivors. Thibodeau had this to say about the series: “They gassed kids to death, and they have the gall to say it was all David Koresh’s fault? They gassed the kids to death. American law enforcement officers gassed American children to death. They went to the structure where the kids were and put so much tear gas in there that they anesthetized all the mothers and children in that little concrete structure. Most young men with good physiques could not have gotten out of that situation. What happened was not fair, and worse, the way it has been portrayed is not historically accurate.”

The series doesn't shy away from depicting Koresh of having committed multiple accounts of child abuse and statutory rape not to mention the illegal arms. A total of 86 people were killed, only four of which were government officials. Roughly a third of those deaths were the result of a tear-gas attacks orchestrated by the FBI that turned into a fire. That fire was responsible for 76 deaths, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh.

“The only reason I even wrote my book was because I was so angry at the misrepresentation of who those people were — the demonization that the government and the media put in place,” the survivor concluded. -Thibodeau

shallowoceanographer

I can't tell you how accurate the events in the show are, primarily because a number of the key events are disputed. However, I can tell you that part of the reason the Branch-Davidians are being portrayed sympathetically is that the FBI's response was and still is controversial.
A basic timeline would look like this:

  • Feb. 28, 1993: The ATF attempts to serve its warrant to arrest Koresh for stockpiling firearms. A shootout ensues, leaving 4 law enforcement agents and 6 Branch-Davidians dead
  • The FBI surrounds the compound and shuts off its connection to the outside world shortly thereafter
  • In the first few days, negotiators secure the release of 19 children who are interviewed, sometimes for hours, by FBI and Texas Rangers
  • On day 9, Koresh uses a tape recorder to send a message that no one there is being held hostage. The feds do not release it to the press due to concern it would make him look sympathetic.
  • As time wears on, the FBI and ATF become more aggressive by playing loud music/sounds at all hours to deny the Branch-Davidians sleep. They cut utilities to the compound, forcing those under siege to survive on rainwater and stockpiled MREs.
  • April 19, 1993: Federal agents launch an assault on the compound, using explosives to punch holes in the walls and pump in tear gas. Incendiary tear gas canisters are used. The compound catches fire. Most of the occupants die. Some are found with gunshot, bludgeoning or knife wounds.

A more thorough summation highlighting some of the controversies would look like this:
Although David Koresh initially gave interviews over the phone to local news stations, the FBI cut off communications and for 51 days the only communication was over the phone with a group of 25 FBI negotiators. The negotiators secured the release of 19 children between the ages of five months and 12 years old. The children were interviewed by FBI and Texas Rangers, who concluded that physical and sexual abuse had been occurring within the compound even before the siege began. This conclusion is controversial (partially because some of the children were interviewed for hours at a time), but it was the FBI's primary justification for launching tear gas at the compound.

The decision to use force against the compound was, to say the least, quite controversial. There was even disagreement among the negotiators over whether to continue negotiating or resort to force. It's unclear who set the fire that destroyed the compound and led to the deaths of so many people within it, including children. The FBI has long blamed the Branch-Davidians, who have in turn blamed the FBI.

As a result of the failures at Waco, both the ATF (bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms) and FBI have changed their training to increase communication between their negotiators and tactical forces. Training is now more uniform between federal and state levels, as well as within agencies themselves (all of the ATF's 24 special response teams at the time of the siege trained differently).

ObsidianNebula

Much of the content mirrors reality, and the largest possible differences between the show and reality regard the two raids on the compound, which the show depicts in the way that some Branch Davidians tell the story.

The ATF became largely involved with the Branch Davidians after a UPS driver, Larry Gilbreath, reported finding inert grenades in February 1992 in a package that had been accidentally opened ^(1) . After Gilbreath reported the dummy grenades, the ATF looked into previous shipments the BDs received and found weapons and some ingredients such as gunpowder, which could have been used to make illegal grenades. Thibodeau says in his book that the gunpowder could instead be used to reload spent ammo cartridges, and that many of the military-grade weapons that were stored at Mount Carmel were sold at gun shows (119-120). There were also devices bought by the BDs that could turn semiautomatic rifles to fully automatic (Thibodeau, 119).

The ATF posted agents undercover as college students living in the house across the street from the compound. The ATF was given permission by David Koresh to inspect the BDs' guns and paperwork, which they refused ^(2) . On February 25, 1993, the ATF filed an affidavit to receive warrants to search Mount Carmel and arrest some BD members ^(3) . The ATF also stated the idea that there may have been a drug operation at Mount Carmel, which allowed them to receive military equipment as a part of the War on Drugs ^(4) .

The ATF carried through with their raid on the compound on February 28, 1993. Shortly before the raid, David Jones told Koresh that he had been asked by a reporter where the compound was located and saw ATF agents on his way back to the compound (Thibodeau 157). Rodriguez informed superiors that Koresh knew of the upcoming assault, but they elected to proceed anyway ^(5) .

During the initial assault, a shot was fired. The origin is unclear. Some sources say that the ATF accidentally discharging a weapon ^(6) . An ATF agent, initially said that he thought the first shots came from ATF agents firing at the BDs' dogs as was depicted in the show ^(7) . Many ATF agents alleged that the first shots were fired by the BDs, while mant BDs say the ATF fired first. After the first shots, ATF agents opened fire on the front door, injuring Koresh. The BDs returned fire on the ATF agents. Four ATF agents and six BDs were killed.

The FBI took over due to the death of federal agents. Koresh requested that his message be spread on national radio, and in return, some BDs would exit the compound. However, he changed his mind (Thibodeau 191, 196). A video was made showing the inside of the compound and the people living inside it, but it was not shown to the public because the FBI thought it would cause sympathy in the public for the BDs ^(8) . During the siege, some members of the compound walked out. Some children were questioned by Texas Rangers for hours at a time ^(9) . There was some evidence that the children may have been abused ^(10) . The FBI cut power and water to the compound, began playing loud noises at night, patrolled in armored vehicles, and repeatedly drove over the grave of BD Peter Gent ^(11) . Koresh wished to tell the world his interpretation of the Seven Seals and negotiated leaving once it was written. Steve Schneider reportedly offered to send the first part of the manuscript to the negotiators to show that the BDs weren't stalling (Thibodeau 241).

ajs62680

The series is mostly based on David Thibodeau’s book, Waco: A Survivors Story. I actually read it after watching the series, and his perspective is one I find credible. He doesn’t shy away from David’s sexual appetite for young girls, but that alone doesn’t justify the kind of raid that took place (and wasn’t exactly against Texas state laws). The rest was dog and pony show for the cameras by the ATF, and it backfired on them, horribly.