Hello everyone and welcome to 2021! As most readers are aware, we use a 20 Year Rule which rolls over every new year. Most years, the newly available topics are fairly mundane, but as we've been noting for some time, 2021 is different. Despite jokes to the contrary, we are not implementing the 21 Year Rule. We are, though, acutely aware of the interest surrounding the events of 9/11, and most especially the bad history and conspiracy theories that revolve around it.
In that light, we are opening up the year by addressing it head on. On behalf of the mods and flaired community, /u/tlumacz and I have put together an overview of the events surrounding the attacks of 9/11, including the history of relevant people and organizations such as Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda. This isn't meant to be the exhaustive, final word or a complete history. Instead, we want to provide the AH community with insight into the history and address some common misconceptions and misunderstandings that surround September 11th, 2001. Additionally, as a META thread, we welcome further questions, and discussion — both on an historical and a personal level — of the history and events.
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Osama bin Laden and the formation of al-Qaeda
To best contextualize the events of the day, we’re going to start with Osama bin Laden. His father, billionaire Mohammed bin Laden, was one of the richest men in Saudi Arabia. Mohammed made his wealth from a construction empire but died when Osama was only 10, leaving behind 56 children and a massive fortune. The prominence of the family name and wealth are two important factors for understanding Osama's rise to power.
The bin Ladens were generally Westernized and many members of the family frequently travelled or sought out education outside Saudi Arabia. Osama bin Laden, however, was upset at Saudi Arabia's close ties with the West and was more attracted to religious practices. The relationship between Saudi Arabia and the US was established in the 1940s when FDR signed a deal with King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, essentially giving the US primary access to oil in exchange for support and — essential to this history — defense from the US military.
Osama bin Laden went to college at King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in the late 70s. After graduating, he traveled to Afghanistan to help the freedom fighters — known as the mujahedeen — in their battle against the Soviets, who had invaded in 1979. Unlike some young men who joined the battles in Afghanistan and took a "summer camp" approach, spending a few months in training before going back to their home countries, Osama was a true believer. He stayed and committed to the fight. He used his leverage as a son of Mohammad bin Laden and his large yearly financial allowance to smooth over initial troubles integrating into the group. (Note: The United States, though the CIA, also were funding the Afghan freedom fighters against the Soviets. The funding didn’t end until 1992, long after Osama bin Laden had left -- the two were not affiliated.)
The group al-Qaeda intended as a more global organization than the mujahideen, was founded in 1988 in order to further Islamic causes, Osama played a role in funding and leading from its inception. The Soviets withdrew the year after, and Osama bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia a hero, having helped bring down a superpower. Potentially rudderless, he was energized in the summer of 1990 when Iraq invaded Kuwait. This event kicked off what is known as the Gulf War. Given Kuwait was adjacent to Saudi Arabia, and the enduring close relationship between the kingdom and the US — hundreds of thousands of US troops were mobilized and housed in Saudi Arabia, with Saudi Arabia footing most of the bill.
Osama bin Laden tried to pitch the fighters trained up from their years in Afghanistan as being up to the task of defending Kuwait as opposed to calling in the Americans, but his plea was rejected by the Saudi government (Note: to be fair, it is unlikely his force was large enough to handle the Iraqi military, the fourth largest military in the world at the time). This rejection, combined with the fact the US lingered for several years after the Gulf War ended, diverting resources from the Saudi Arabian people directly to the Americans, made an impression on Osama.
He vocally expressed disgust, and given that the Saudi Royal Family did not tolerate dissent, soon left the country for Sudan (which had just had an Islamist coup) in 1991. Even from another country, Osama kept up his public disdain for Saudi Arabia; family members pleaded with him to stop, but he didn’t and eventually, he was kicked out for good: his citizenship was revoked.
Meanwhile, he kept close contact with various terrorist groups — Sudan was a hub — and used the wealth he still possessed to build farming and construction businesses.
His public resentment for the United States continued, and as he was clearly a power player, the CIA successfully pressured the leadership of Sudan into kicking Osama bin Laden out in 1997; his assets were confiscated and he started anew in Afghanistan, finding safe shelter with the ruling Taliban, a political movement and military force. The Taliban had essentially taken control of the country by 1996, although the civil war was still ongoing. Almost immediately after he arrived, bin Laden made a "declaration of war" against the US. He later explained:
We declare jihad against the United States because the US Government is an unjust, criminal, and abusive government.
He objected to the US occupying Islam’s holy places (which included the Gulf War occupation), and had specific grievance with the US's continued support of Israel and the Saudi royals. For him, it was clearly not just a religious matter, but also personal and political.
Earlier that same year, the CIA established a special unit, based in Tysons Corner, Virginia, specifically for tracking Osama bin Laden They searched for a reason to bring charges, and finally had a break when Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl (code named "Junior"), one of the first to give allegiance to Osama, approached the Americans. He had stolen $100,000 from Osama and needed protection. In return, he offered details about organizational charts and most importantly, a way to connect Osama to the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu in 1993. The CIA was working to gather enough evidence such that if the opportunity presented itself, he could be taken into custody for conspiring to attack the United States.
Meanwhile, the CIA worked to raise alarms among the military and intelligence communities. When George W. Bush won the presidency in 2000 and first met Clinton at the White House, Clinton said
I think you will find that by far your biggest threat is bin Laden and the al-Qaeda.
Some of the events that led to that assessment included the 1996 al-Qaeda-led attempted assassination plot on US President Bill Clinton while he was in Manila. (The Secret Service were alerted and agents found a bomb under a bridge). In 1998, al-Qaeda orchestrated attacks on US embassies in Africa that led to the deaths of hundreds. Then in 2000, they were responsible for the bombing of the USS Cole (suicide bombers in a small boat went alongside the destroyer, killing 17 crew members).
By the time the warning about Al-Qaeda was shared with Bush, plans for what would later become known as 9/11 were well underway. The plan was put into motion when, in the summer of 2000, a number of Al-Qaeda members took up flight training in the United States. Final decisions, including target selection, were probably made in July 2001, when the terrorists’ field commander, Mohamed Atta, traveled to Spain for a meeting with his friend and now coordinator: Ramzi bin al-Shibh. The nineteen hijackers were divided into four groups, each with a certified pilot who would be able to guide the airliners into their targets plus three or four enforcers whose job it was to ensure that the terrorist pilot was able to successfully carry out his task. The hijacking itself was easy enough. The terrorists used utility knives and pepper spray to subdue the flight attendants and passengers.
Before we go into the specifics of what happened on September 11, 2001, we want to address the idea of a “20th hijacker.” Tactically, it makes sense to have equal teams of 5 men. While the identity of the would-be 20th hijacker has never been confirmed (nor has the reason for his dropping out of the operation been established), circumstances indicate he did exist and numerous hypotheses as to who the man was have been proposed. (The most prominent — Zacarias Moussaoui, who was convicted in federal court of conspiracy to commit terrorism — later said he was supposed to be involved in a different terrorist attack, after September 11th.)
September 11, 2001
Early in the morning of 9/11 four airliners took off from airports in the US East Coast: two Boeing 757s and two Boeing 767s, two of American Airlines and two of United Airlines. All four planes were scheduled to fly to California, on the US West Coast, which meant they carried a large fuel load. The hijackers knew that once they redirected to their targets, they would still have most of that fuel. The two planes that struck the WTC towers had been in the air for less than an hour.
American Airlines Flight 11 hit the North Tower and United Airlines Flight 175 hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center, in New York City. Both impacts damaged the utility shaft systems and jet fuel spilled down elevator shafts and ignited, crashing elevators and causing large fires in the lobbies of the buildings. Both buildings collapsed less than two hours later. The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), tasked by the US Congress with investigating the cause of the buildings’ collapse, reported portions of the buildings reached 1000 degrees centigrade. (Note: Not only was jet fuel burning, so were desks, curtains, furniture, and other items within the WTC While some like to point out this is under the "melting point" of steel [1510 centigrade], this detail is absolutely irrelevant: the steel did not liquify. Consider the work of a blacksmith; they do not need to melt steel in order to bend it into shape. Steel starts to weaken at around 600 centigrade, and 1000 centigrade is sufficient to cause steel to lose 90% strength, so there was enough warping for both buildings to entirely lose their integrity.)
A third, nearby tower was damaged by debris from the collapse of the other towers, causing large fires that compromised the building’s structural integrity. Internally, "Column 79" buckled, followed by Columns 80 and 81, leading to a progressive structural collapse where, as the NIST report puts it, "The exterior façade on the east quarter of the building was just a hollow shell." This led to the core collapsing, followed by the exterior. (Note: There is a conspiracy theory related to a conversation the real estate developer Larry Silverstein, and owner of the building, had with the fire department commander. He was heard saying, "We've had such a terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." However, this is common firefighter terminology and simply refers to pulling out firefighters from a dangerous environment.)
At 9:37 AM, the terrorist piloting American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon. The plane first hit the ground, causing one wing to disintegrate and the other to shear off. The body of the plane then hit the first floor, leaving a hole 75 feet wide. Things could have been much worse: the portion of the Pentagon hit was undergoing renovation so had a quarter of the normal number of employees; additionally, while 26 of the columns holding up the second floor were destroyed, it took half an hour before the floor above collapsed. This meant all of the people on the 2nd through 5th floors were able to safely escape. Meanwhile, the Pentagon itself is mostly concrete as it was built during WWII, while steel was being rationed. The steel that was used turned out to be placed in fortuitously beneficial ways. The pillars had been reinforced with steel in a spiral design (as opposed to hoops) and the concrete pillars were reinforced with overlapping steel beams.
Note: There is a conspiracy theory that the Pentagon was struck by a missile rather than a plane. This is absurd for numerous reasons, one being the hundreds who saw the plane as it approached the Pentagon (some observers even recognized the plane’s livery as belonging to American Airlines.) Second, nearly all the passengers from the flight were later identified by DNA testing. Third, one of the first responders, a structural engineer, said
I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the stone on one side of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I stood on a pile of debris that we later discovered contained the black box.… I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?
The fourth plane, United Airlines Flight 93, crashed into a field in rural Pennsylvania. The passengers on the plane were able to overwhelm the enforcers and break into the cockpit. The crash caused no structural damage, and took no lives, on the ground.
We now need to rewind to what was happening immediately following the hijacking of the four planes. Controversy surrounds the immediate response of the US military to the attacks, with questions about why the airliners were not shot down (or, conversely, could they have legally been shot down.) In the end, the military response was stifled by communications chaos and the fact that by and large the terrorists did not leave enough time for a comprehensive reaction. The first fighters, F-15C Eagles from Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts, were scrambled after the first tower had already been hit. By the time Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy and Major Daniel Nash reached New York, the other WTC tower had been struck. Nash would later recall:
I remember shortly after takeoff you could see the smoke because it was so clear: the smoke from the towers burning. . . . And then we were about 70 miles out when they said, ‘a second aircraft has hit the World Trade Center.’
An additional three fighters took to the air from Langley AFB in Virginia, at 0930. With just seven minutes left before American 77 would hit the Pentagon, the Langley jets would have been hard pressed to make it in time to see the impact, let alone to prevent it. In the end, it made no difference that in the initial confusion, they first flew away from DC. Finally, two F-16s, those of Lieutenant Colonel Marc H. Sasseville and Lieutenant Heather Penney, took off from Andrews Air Force Base at 1042. Their task was to intercept and destroy any hijacked airliner that might attempt to enter DC airspace. The rapidity of the order, however, meant that the F-16s were sent out unarmed. As a result, both pilots were acutely aware that their orders were, essentially, to commit suicide. They would have had to ram the incoming B757, with Sasseville ordering Penney to strike the tail while he would strike the nose. The chances of a successful ejection would have been minuscule.
Note: modern airliners are very good at staying in the air even when not fully functional and are designed with a potential engine failure in mind. As a result, any plan hinging on “just damage and disable one of the engines” (for example, by striking it with the vertical stabilizer) carried unacceptable risk of failure: the fighter jet would have been destroyed either way, but while the pilot would have a better chance of surviving, Flight 93 could have continued on its way. Therefore, ramming the fuselage was the only method of attack which would have given a near-certainty of the B757 being stopped there and then.
Further reports and inquiries, including the 9/11 Commission, revealed a stupefying degree of chaos and cover-ups at the higher levels of command on the day of the attacks. While “fog of war” was certainly a factor, and the FAA’s failure to communicate with NORAD exacerbated the chaos, the timeline of events later published by NORAD contradicted established facts and existing records and became a paramount example of a government agency trying to avoid blame for their errors throughout the sequence of events described here. Members of the 9/11 Commission identified these contradictions and falsehoods as a leading cause of conspiracy theories regarding the attacks.
What happened after
The aftermath, which is beyond the scope of this post, was global. Sympathy and unity came from nearly all corners of the world; a response of force was authorized by the US on September 18, 2001:
That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
The joint US-British effort to eliminate the Taliban began on October 7, with France, Germany, Australia, and Canada also pledging support. Ground forces arrived in Afghanistan 12 days later, but most of the fighting happened between the Taliban and the Afghan rebels, who had been fighting against the Taliban all this time. The international support led to a quick sweep over Taliban strongholds in November: Taloqan, Bamiyan, Herat, Kabul, Jalalabad. The Taliban collapsed entirely and surrendered Kandahar on December 9th.
In December 2001, Osama bin Laden was tracked to caves southeast of Kabul, followed by an extensive firefight against the al-Qaeda led by Afghan forces. He escaped on December 16, effectively ending the events of 2001.
We have entered the third millennium through a gate of fire. If today, after the horror of 11 September, we see better, and we see further — we will realize that humanity is indivisible. New threats make no distinction between races, nations or regions. A new insecurity has entered every mind, regardless of wealth or status. A deeper awareness of the bonds that bind us all — in pain as in prosperity — has gripped young and old.
-- Kofi Annan, seventh Secretary-General of the United Nations, in his December 2001 Nobel Lecture
....
Below are some selected references; flairs are also in the process of a larger revamp of the booklist which will roll out soon.
Coll, S. (2005). Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan and Bin Laden. United Kingdom: Penguin Books Limited.
Kean, T., & Hamilton, L. (2004). The 9/11 Commission Report: Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. Government Printing Office.
McDermott, T. (2005). Perfect Soldiers: The Hijackers: Who They Were. Why They Did It. HarperCollins.
Mlakar, P. E., Dusenberry, D. O., Harris, J. R., Haynes, G., Phan, L. T., & Sozen, M. A. (2003). The Pentagon Building Performance Report. American Society of Civil Engineers.
Tawil, C., Bray, R. (2011). Brothers In Arms: The Story of Al-Qa'ida and the Arab Jihadists. Saqi.
Thompson, K. D. (2011). Final Reports from the NIST World Trade Center Disaster Investigation.
Wright, L. (2006). The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11. Knopf.
First off, a massive thanks to you and /u/tlumacz for working on this. It is no small feat!
It really has been quite interesting to see 9/11 tick closer to the sub's scope, for any number of reasons. On the personal level of course, it doesn't feel like history. It seems so recent, and I have such vivid memories of hearing about it and the ensuing day.
For the sub though, the '21 Year Rule' now has to retire as a joke, but it also is interesting, I think, so see how the rule and 9/11 have interacted up to now. We used to get quite frequent questions about it, but as a few mods have observed in our own chats on the topic, it is actually a lot less frequent these days, and it likely speaks to the strength of the 20 Year Rule, however arbitrary it might be in the specific cut-off that we chose. For myself and the older mods, 9/11 remains a critical, defining point of our lifetime, but we now have mods who barely were even aware of the world around them when it happened, and its only a matter of time before the first mod born after joins the team.
The purpose of the rule has always been a function of our format, a way to ensure there is some distance between ourselves and the events being written about, and 9/11 has simply been emblematic of that in the past given his place in collective memory... but we really are now moving to the point where is truly is history for a decent amount of our readership, or at least hazy events of childhood that were hard to fully grasp at the time.
Because of my own personal perspective, it is hard to really know what the 'Next 9/11' is in these terms, that is to say, what the next culturally defining point is that we're going to darkly joke about eventually fielding questions for, and I'm not even sure there is one of that magnitude. Certainly contentious topics continue to await us on the horizon... the Invasion of Iraq is now two years away, and certainly promises to be big, but not in this way. The Obama years becoming fair game are going to be a fun time too, and certainly I don't envy whoever is modding in 2036 (wait, will that still be me!?) and has to start dealing with the Presidential campaign and the Trump Presidency, but is 2040, and COVID, going to be the biggest cultural touchstone we now await? Hard to really say...
But in any case, 2021 is here, and I think that the 20 Year Rule has done its job shepherding us there. Hopefully, of course, I won't regret saying that...
Finally, two F-16s, those of Lieutenant Colonel Marc H. Sasseville and Lieutenant Heather Penney, took off from Andrews Air Force Base at 1042. Their task was to intercept and destroy any hijacked airliner that might attempt to enter DC airspace. The rapidity of the order, however, meant that the F-16s were sent out unarmed. As a result, both pilots were acutely aware that their orders were, essentially, to commit suicide.
On the 10 year memorial of 9/11 CSPAN aired an interview with Lieutenant Penney where she discusses their plan. It was haunting to hear her discuss what she was prepared do.
ooh boy, does jet fuel melt steel beams? Find out today on r/askhistorians !
In all seriousness, i'm surprised how good the 20 year rule is. 5 years ago i feel like it would still end up being a prime topic for political discussions of Obama versus Bush, the state of the middle east, etc. Yet today it feels more like a 'historic' event rather than a 'political' event.
This is an excellent recap. Thank you to those who put it together. As someone who was on the runway on a flight out of Newark to the West Coast when the first tower was hit, this hit home for me all too much.
Much appreciation for the time and effort it took you to put this together.
I would like to ask for some similar overviews of the social environment after the attacks. Thing like people saying 1) "I know we're in bumfuck, idaho, but we're just 30 mins away from the capital, we could be a target", 2) the color code terror alert system that increased the fear, and 3) high school students being prepped on what to do if their school was hit by a terror attack, all had a huge impact on the american psyche, and are a huge part of understanding that year.
Source: lived through all of the above
Excellent writeup. It's very clear that this has still been on the mind of many in the sub even after so long. Zhukov's comment about how it still feels very recent captures exactly what I, and likely several others, feel.
A few questions:
leaving behind 56 children
May I ask for elaboration on how such a thing came about? Was this a common occurrence in the given circumstances?
Additionally, a common "fact" that comes up in the lead up to the attacks is the breakdown of communication between the CIA and the FBI. Is there any truth to the idea?
Meta: Given how thorough mods/flaired users seem to be with a given topic such as this one, have they ever considered asking questions (preemptively) and answering them themselves akin to something like StackOverflow?
I'm old enough to remember both 9/11 and the 1993 WTC bombing. I know that Al-Queda was involved in both and they were planned by the same man. Did the failure of the 1993 bombing have any impact on the plan for 9/11? Was Bin-Laden involved in the 1993 bombing as well?
I have a question about the function of your overview. You mentioned Osama escaping from US forces on December 16, 2001, but left out Donald Rumsfeld refusing to give the order to move in. (Source: Tora Bora Revisited, https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Tora_Bora_Report.pdf ) The question is this: was this done to keep the overview as nonpartisan as possible, or was it seen as irrelevant to the historical overview?
Context: In May, I'm going to be starting my history undergrad work, and am curious as to the process.
I never knew about the assassination plot against Bill Clinton in Manila, nor the fact the fighter jets were scrambled without weapons and that the pilots were prepared for a suicide mission. It's just a little fact that really puts that day in a bit of a different perspective.
If I may, I remember 9/11 vividly. I was 18, kinda rootless, and had just been let go from a commitment to join the USMC a few months before (which should tell you how different a time it was, they just let me walk, no reason to keep pushing on a dude to join a peacetime military). I woke up early because I'd fallen asleep early the night before, so turned on ESPN to see Monday Night Football highlights, and they were talking about the first plane to hit the tower. As I was watching, the second plane hit.
It was surreal, and, I think, if you weren't really around before it, I don't think you can understand how jarring it was. Now we're locked in the forever 'War on Terror', so the mindset is different, but back then it was shocking. It truly changed so much about America, easily the biggest crossroads of the millennium for us.
I remember hearing about the plane that went down in PA, how crazy that story sounded. So much tragedy, but how those people, and the first responders in NYC and DC reacted, a lot of heroes too.
In my opinion, 9/11 isn't the only reason America is where we are today, but it might be the biggest.
Sorry for the digression, this just had me thinking a lot, really excellent work as always by AH.
As we start pushing into "shit I remember happening", I'm really looking forward to how much of what I remember happening was either inaccurate, forgotten, or deemed unimportant enough to have made it into official records. 9/11 is forever seared into my memory, as a teenager living in New York at the time. For me it has never and will never feel like "history", it's a deeply personal event, forever changing the skyline of my city, and the lives of countless friends and family (including someone who was orphaned at my school).
Will users here ask about, or remember the rumors of 8 planes being hijacked? Rumors of bombs on the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges? The evacuation march across the Queensboro Bridge that I flashbacked to during The Dark Knight Rises? "Ghost" people, covered in ash and dust, on the trains? Do those things even matter?
Can we truly capture just how different the mood in the country was between 2000 and 2002?
What a long strange trip it has been.
The fourth plane, United Airlines Flight 93, crashed into a field in rural Pennsylvania. The passengers on the plane were able to overwhelm the enforcers and break into the cockpit. The crash caused no structural damage, and took no lives, on the ground.
Is there information on what was the target of Flight 93?
(Note: The United States, though the CIA, was funding the Afhgan freedom fighters against the Soviets. The funding didn’t end until 1992.)
My understanding is that the US funded specifically the Mujahideen groups in Afghanistan that were comprised of native Afghanis, not the groups comprised of foreign fighters. Is there any evidence that US funds did end up going toward Bin Laden and the group he was affiliated with in Afghanistan?
I'd like to thank you both for putting this together, as well as the whole mod team for making this such a good and informative subreddit. I consider it an important part of history to learn, for us who weren't there to experience it. Now, I've got one piece of barely related trivia, and one question too.
1 I remember being told by my mum about how she sat in my grandparents living room, seeing how the television changed to show what was happening, how a reporter pointed at a tower and said it had fallen, while it still was on screen. Today I assume it's greenscreen. But that living room, and it's the same living room I've been sitting in while reading this, it feels fitting.
2 You said one of the planes only had four hijackers, which one was that? Was it the one hitting pentagon, was it the one hitting the southern or northern tower? Or was it, as I suspect, the one which was landed mostly safely?
Once again, thanks for putting this together, and thanks in advance for answering my question.
Earlier that same year, the CIA established a special unit, based in Tysons Corner, Virginia,specifically for tracking Osama bin Laden
How come they didn't have at least hints of an operation of such magnitude? Were they disbanded before?
Fantastic write-up on this, thank you both!
Though I just wanted to point out something I had noticed while reading and I wanted to clear it up,
(Note: The United States, though the CIA, was funding the Afghan freedom fighters against the Soviets. The funding didn’t end until 1992.)
While this is most certainly true, it needs to be pointed out that the CIA sent the majority of funds through intermediaries (most often Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI) before they ended up with the Mujahedeen groups in Afghanistan. Steve Coll goes over this quite a bit in Ghost Wars if you want more of an understanding of how specifically the US supplied funds and arms to groups fighting the Soviets and Soviet backed forces in Afghanistan.
For added clarity, it should also be pointed out that Bin Laden and his group was never funded by the CIA, either directly or indirectly. This is a claim that is often made with no evidence backing it up, and even Coll himself has had to point out many times in interviews throughout the years that the claim is baseless. At the end of the day, there were dozens if not hundreds of independent Mujahedeen groups fighting in Afghanistan at one point or another during the Soviet Occupation. While many of them did see some funding or arms shipments sourced from the US, not all of them did, and that includes Bin Laden's group. His group was primarily self-funded through Bin Laden's own wealth as well as other sources. Having said that however, I want to also point out that this doesn't necessarily mean that the CIA or the US did not play a rather large role in creating the conditions in Afghanistan that allowed Bin Laden to return after the war and use the country as his base of operations.
I never knew the invasion led to such a quick downfall of the Taliban,or at least took out quickly so many strongholds. My knowledge is quite lacking I admit on the subject so thank you for writing this!
My contribution to the reading list is the graphic novel version of the 9/11 Commission Report. Highly abbreviated, more pathos-laden, but also much more accessible than the full text.
https://us.macmillan.com/tradebooksforcourses/academictrade/9780809057399/the911report-1
I have a simple question that I’m not seeing an answer to so far: Was there a clear intended outcome of the attacks? Simply to spread fear and paranoia in the US? I understand bin Laden declared Jihad, but he also must’ve predicted that the US would retaliate, risking a worse outcome for himself and his people.
I'm glad you guys are so prepared for this. I had totally forgotten until I saw this thread that we're now in that territory. I was 7 years old and remember the day very well. They didn't show it to us in school, but I vividly remember walking to the car with my dad when he said, "Something very bad happened in New York today." My uncle was working in the city and my grandma was living in Staten Island, so we were all very worried. A relative whom I'd never met, my cousin's brother-in-law, died in the WTC that day. I find it quite upsetting having to wade through 9/11 content because of this so I am a) glad that we have loads of other flairs who are on top of this and b) going to try to distract myself by thinking of non-9/11 topics that are now fair game... The best part of 2001 was definitely when Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone was released in theatres, a much happier memory. :D
Well done! Special thanks for the brief but effective pre-emptive strikes against conspiracy theories (e.g. steel beams and and missile strikes on the pentagon). Thanks for doing this.
Thank you for doing this for all of us. I was 7 months pregnant and watched this on the tv with family members. I live in San Diego and lived under the airports flight path. There is always a 757 fedex airplane that I would go outside and watch as it would fly over. The fear and unknowing during that morning was horrendous. I came from a military family. Marines who fought in Vietnam and the gulf so you can be assured I came from a very right leaning political family. I started college in 2006 and of course my very liberal English professor would have us watch documentaries and follow it with a paper each week. The documentary that stood out the most was Taxi of the Dark Side. Our policies that created Bin Ladens hate for the US should not be ignored. I’m not agreeing with anything that he did but when you start looking closely would the United States have been attacked if it wasn’t for our need of oil?
Thank you for this write up. I wasn't born till November of 01 and 9/11 was still a taboo subject at my school by the time I graduated. This was more in depth than our actual course on the event was.
Great write up. It may be worth noting the scrambled jets took off from Langley AFB in Hampton, VA, not from Langley, VA (the home of the CIA).
Wonderful write up; I learned a lot. Respectfully, might it be wise to alter the wording here:
The passengers on the plane were able to overwhelm the enforcers and break into the cockpit. The crash caused no structural damage, and took no lives, on the ground.
To clarify that while no lives were lost on the ground, the 44 people on the plane were killed in the crash? The phrase 'took no lives' may be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the story of flight 93.
Thank you very much for that writeup ! It is very interesting but I have two questions regarding it, from the book Les Guerriers de l'Ombre (2017, Editions Tallandier) from Jean-Christophe Notin, where he make several claims which I had difficulty to find corroborating works. In this book, he interviews former French DGSE officers (DGSE is the French foreign intelligence service).
His first claim is about the Talibans' welcome of bin-Laden [pages 215-223], the author states that bin-Laden was welcome as a former brother of arms (from the Soviet-Afghan war) but generally disliked (J.-C. Notin also claims the Arab volunteers were not liked during the war either, but welcomed as the Afghans needed men to fight). According to the interviews, bin-Laden was much closer to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar than the Taliban. The book goes on to state that the Taliban started to support bin-Laden following the missile strikes from Operation Infinite Reach, which were supposed to kill bin-Laden while he was present at a Loya Jirga, but he was warned by the Pakistani ISI and the missiles only killed Afghan leaders (angering the Taliban).
The second claim is in regard to the period between 9/11 and the coalition's attack on Afghanistan on 9/23/2001. The author states that an assembly of around 600 ulamas (Sunni scholars) petitionned Mullah Omar to kick bin-Laden out in order to protect the country from destruction in the war as they stated the Taliban were not involved in the preparation of the 9/11 attacks but merely hosted former brother of arms [pages 232-233].
What is the validity of those claims ?
Thank you team for this great write up! Like many people I can certainly remember where I was on September 11th as it all happened. (Distinctly, I can remember coming downstairs to find my mum crying as the tv was one.)
That said, I think the parts that most impacted me was the quickly expanding Afghanistan war. I knew people who went off to fight, and some who didn't come back, and that really impacted young me.
I'm also really interested to see how this impacts the sub over the next year or so. Let's make it an extra special year, and celebrate this extra special community!
I've waited for this year because, oddly enough, I've always wanted perspective on the conspiracies themselves!
The question: What are the most prominent conspiracy theories to come from 9/11? And why and how did they develop?
> While “fog of war” was certainly a factor, and the FAA’s failure to communicate with NORAD exacerbated the chaos, the timeline of events later published by NORAD contradicted established facts and existing records and became a paramount example of a government agency trying to avoid blame for their errors throughout the sequence of events described here. Members of the 9/11 Commission identified these contradictions and falsehoods as a leading cause of conspiracy theories regarding the attacks.
To clarrify, on which organisations part was the cover-up occouring? NORAD? FAA? Both?
Secondly, was this cover up damaging enough that it spawned concequences for those involved?
My father survived the Pentagon attack. Still gets PTSD flair ups if he’s at an airport and smells jet fuel.
Thank you to all of the mods for meeting this head on.
Having read Ghost Wars I find the omission of Massoud and his Northern Alliances near complete control of afghanistan pre 9/11 a strange omission. I suppose that's the trick of any historical post, keeping what's important while not expanding too much.
Not mentioning Osama having him assassinated two days before 9/11 is a big oversight imo and was the biggest revelation in ghost wars.
Wonderful work, and something I'm sure we're going to be pointing people to over and over - probably for 20 more years to come!
Also, since it's a television adaptation and thus won't be on the reference list, I'll second the recommendation by /u/theghostofme for the 10 part miniseries The Looming Tower, which combines much of the excellent Wright book of the same title with the Soufan memoir. Soufan certainly isn't shy about using the series to settle scores as he takes a hatchet to the CIA, but given the massive policy and intelligence failures involved, can't say I particularly disagree with his choice. Definitely worth a watch regardless of whether or not you've read the books.
I was too young to remember 9/11 and I’m not American, so any information I’ve tried to find has been laced with conspiracy, so I really loved this! Thank you so much.
I do have a question though: when Kofi Annan said “new threats make no distinction between races, nations or regions,” was he talking about 9/11 specifically? Because that made a clear distinction in nationality- it specifically targeted the US. Or am I misunderstanding the quote?
Thank you.
9/11 happened when I was in 4th grade. I was raised to ask questions and think critically, but we know what can happen when skepticism goes too far. For many years, I read deeply into the conspiracy theories surrounding this event and ate it all up. There is a certain power that comes with "knowing the truth" (at least, thinking you know something others don't), and people don't want to give up that feeling; I didn't want to give up that feeling. For many years I said it was all a cover-up and instead of seeking out dissenting opinions, I only looked for information that confirmed my beliefs. Well, it's been nearly 20 years and my zeal for conspiracies has waned. I hadn't really even thought about 9/11 for a long time until I just saw this post. Although short and simple, it actually very plainly outlines some facts that I had remained willingly ignorant of for many years. The main point that always bugged me was that there didn't seem to be any formal acknowledgement that the perpetrators were Saudis. Knowing that, I always found it suspicious that Saudi men attacked us on 9/11, but as a result we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan? But this makes it clearer. The attackers may have been Saudis, but they were Saudi rebels. They hated their own government, much like many Americans. They were terrorists and they were not aligned with the Saudi government, because the Saudi government are allies to the United States. It makes total sense.
Let it be known, people can change their minds about things. 9/11 was just the result of some global politics and religious zealotry gone wrong.
This was a FANTASTIC telling. Thank you guys.
Great write-up.
For a first-hand perspective from the aircrews who were scrambled that terrible day, I highly recommend these three sources:
It's part of a larger documentary, but @ 2:50 they feature some interviews from a couple of Canadian CF-18 pilots who were scrambled to intercept suspect aircraft. They talk about what is was like having to face the prospect of having to do the unthinkable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnt_6FGdcK8
This one is a longer interview with a Massachusetts Air National Guard F-15 pilot who was scrambled from an airbase on the east coast and ended up becoming one of the first armed jets to arrive over Manhattan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3GWEtze_Co
There's also the chilling interview with Major Heather Penny u/AB1908 posted, where she describes having to potentially use her own aircraft to bring down a hijacked airliner: https://www.c-span.org/video/?300959-1/major-heather-penney-september-11-2001
This was a fantastic write-up. Thank you.
My dorm was 4 blocks from the WTC on 9/11 and I can still vividly recall every minute of that day. It’s always interesting for me to see what others remember (or don’t) because this was the day that changed my life. At first for worse and then, as years ticked by, for the better.
My 1 year old daughter wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for 9/11 (a story for a different sub). I look forward to teaching her about my experiences from that day, as painful as it may be, since it is such a significant day of US history.
I think it's worth mentioning, since it's such a common myth online and the mujahideen are mentioned here: the dedication at the end of Rambo III is said to have originally been to "the brave Mujahideen fighters", and after 9/11 was changed to "the gallant people of Afghanistan". This is untrue, and the dedication never mentioned mujahideen-the commonly circulated image featuring that is photoshop. Good video of someone meticulously checking this here.
One terrific validation of the 20 year rule is that one of the single best volumes I’ve read about 9/11 only came out in 2019: The Only Plane In The Sky: An Oral History of 9/11 by Garrett M. Graff. The bibliography includes an amazing roundup of the many, many, many oral history projects conducted around 9/11, big and small.
I know there are a lot of younger members of this subreddit who don’t personally remember 9/11 or may even have been born after it occurred. A lot of the major literature on the subject presupposes an understanding of the actual day’s events and seeks to put them into a larger context. However, if you DO want to understand more about the actual day’s events - what happened, where, when, in what order, what was the reaction at the moment it took place - you cannot do better than that book. It’s a time capsule.
Thank you for doing this. Twenty years. Still so vivid in my mind. Tears in my eyes. It was a hell of a time to live in the tristate area.
I have a couple questions, prefaced that the attacks were obviously a scary and uncertain time:
How many people were in the planes that had hit? I know of people that had missed their flight.
What safety precautions have been had to preventhigh jackings? (If this breaks the rules skip it)
Prior to 9/11 and the aftermath how common was Islamaphobia? Such as in the 70s-90’s?
Also for the mods or anyone interested the one class I wish I was able to take at my university was called The History of Terrorism, taught by Professor John A. Lynn II, he has a great resource knowledge and authorship regarding further information to dig into historical context and origins of terrorism.
Thanks. 9/11 Truthers must be permablocked.
I was in AIT when the USS Cole happened, I knew then that my time in the military would be spent fighting terrorism. Prior to that we were all told it would be a vacation and that the worst thing we would have to worry about was being deployed to Bosnia-Herzegovina. I still ended up spending much time at Eagle Base in Bosnia.
When 9/11 happened I was already a trained HUMINT Collector. I deployed to AFG in November 2001. I would spend the next 10+ years strictly focused on counterterrorism, amazing how one event was so profound that it fundamentally changed the lives and course of history for millions around the globe.
Is the War in Afghanistan (at least the overthrowing the Taliban part) also fair game to ask on this sub? It's difficult to talk about 9/11 without mentioning the War in Afghanistan (and Iraq); which you did cover on the OP. This is an ongoing conflict and I believe this may push the 20 year rule on a wall for this reason.
Blindspot: The Road to 9/11 is a great NPR podcast about what led to 9/11. It is based on a History channel series, which I haven't seen, but is probably good as well.
I was in 9th grade Spanish class when I saw the 2nd plane hit live on television.
Has there been much research done on the effects of us seeing it live on tv like that as a generation?
Thank you so much ! For many years I had strongly believed it was an inside job, but you can't beat this facts and events that lead up to it. I feel cleansed and refreshed
Thank you for the hard work you put into this sub. It is a true gem.
A question regarding bin Laden’s early life as written in the post. It is mentioned that, during the time of his exile from Saudi Arabia, he ‘kept close contact with various terrorist groups’.
Only mujahideen and al-Qaeda had been mentioned to that point. Are we to take away that these groups, at that time, were terrorist organizations? Or were there other groups with which he was involved?
Can you talk about how much involvement Bin Laden had with the actual planning/execution of the 9/11 attacks?
I remember the day vividly, even though I experienced it on the other side of the world in NZ.
The country stood still, people were glued to the TV watching it all unfold, the world changed that day.
My boss bought in his TV and we all just watched in shock, customers would come in and stand in front of the TV with us, not a lot of work was done that day.
just a small question since it was not covered above, was the intended target for Flight 93 ever discovered?
Great write up as always. Very informative. As a 50 year old, I may be slightly on the older side of the demographics for this sub if I remember the yearly polls correctly. I was in New Orleans at the time getting ready to head out for work at my IBM job in a high rise. I mention that because after watching the strikes, I went to work and they quickly let us go for the day because they had no idea if our building or any high rise in the United States was the next target. I think we closed the whole Central Business District for a few days. It was surreal driving into work thinking the building I was going to might be targeted. Planes were still being forced to land everywhere so we didn't know if some rogue jet might be out there heading towards us.
I haven't read all the comments but I'd like to point out that while Bin Laden was angry about US troops being based in Saudi Arabia, US troops don't occupy Islamic holy sites. The Saudi government itself protects the Islamic holy sites (that being one of the primary titles of the Saudi king), although they did call in (hastily converted) French commandos when the Masjid al-Haram (surrounding the Ka'aba) was taken over by Islamic militants in 1979. As far as I understand, US troops are located in bases in Saudi Arabia, just as they are located in bases in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. There are, of course, other reasons why Bin Laden might have grievances against the US policy in the Middle East: the US being aligned with Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians, US support for the Egyptian military, which repressed the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.
Controversy surrounds the immediate response of the US military to the attacks, with questions about why the airliners were not shot down (or, conversely, could they have legally been shot down.)
Could they legally have been shot down?
Can there please be a special flair for posts about 9/11? My father was there and things about it, especially close to the anniversary, give me panic attacks.
I’d like to ask a question around the 9/11 response. I was 13 at the time of 9/11 and I remember it spawned the concept of freedom fries. Could anyone speak to the history of how that developed? It seems quite puerile now. Did any other foodstuffs or cultural items change names because of 9/11?
So three buildings fell in NYC that day? WTC 7 collapsed due to fire?
Thanks for this wonderful write-up! I remember September 11 so vividly, and the months afterwards, it really changed everything overnight. And now I have to wonder... we’re experiencing more than 3,000 deaths per day from Covid, yet it somehow felt like Sept 11 was a more decisive event in our history. Reminds one of the Spanish Flu, which killed more people than WWI yet is merely a footnote to the war in most tellings. Why do attacks and wars bring so much more change than natural events that kill far more people?
Thank you for this great write-up. I have a question about one sentence...
The group al-Qaeda intended as a more global organization than the mujahideen, was founded in 1988 in order to further Islamic causes....
I don't know anything about the goals of al-Qaeda in 1988, but I've always associated them with Islamist causes, but never as a group dedicated to Islamic causes in general.
My question is whether it's actually true that al-Qaeda started as a group dedicated to Islamic causes generally? Or would it have been more accurate to use the word 'Islamist" in that sentence instead of "Islamic"?
How was bin Laden’s citizenship revoked? Was he a dual national or did Saudi Arabia simply forgo international law by making him stateless?
Thanks for the excellent write up! There's one more conspiracy theory that always puzzled me: the "presence of thermite" in the debris, suggesting that the structural columns had explosives pre-installed and created progressive collapse. It's an insane theory. But was there actually thermite? And how would it have gotten there? I've never found a good source on it.
Just wanted to say thank you to the writer and editor of this post. It was extremely interesting to read, I’m excited to learn more. Maybe i will pick up one of the books at the end as some reading for 2021.
I think this is a good write up that gives a pretty basic outline of the timeline of events. But there is an obvious question here that I've been actually wondering since this happened.
During the "what happened after" section, it gives a quote and then goes right into how the US/British forces were fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. Prior to this point, there is no mention of the Taliban at all, and any mention to the opposing faction references Al-Quaeda.
Who are the Taliban, why are they important to this scenario, and why are they seemingly interchangeable with Al-Quaeda in regards to 9/11?
Thank you for posting this. Been lurking AskHistorians for a long time.
Thought I'd chip in this excellent article from Politico which chronicles Where Air Force One was all day for September 11th, as told by journalists who were on board travelling with President Bush. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-only-plane-in-the-sky-214230
It's a really great window into how the "Fog of War" manifested itself that day.
Thank you. Was there more about Osama’s disdain for the US? IIRC, he shared a video and a letter addressed the the US that mentions his reasonings. I believe at least one reason had to due with destruction the US military had caused including the burning and collapse of a tower that may have had women and children occupying it.
Who do I complain to about things I experienced now being r/askhistorians fodder? 🤣
In return, he offered details about organizational charts and most importantly, a way to connect Osama to the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu in 1993. The CIA was working to gather enough evidence such that if the opportunity presented itself, he could be taken into custody for conspiring to attack the United States.
Was evidence of his (presumably relatively peripheral and indirect) involvement in the Black Hawk Down incident really necessary for taking him into custody? Wouldn’t there have been much stronger evidence for his more direct involvement in the East Africa embassy bombings?
Great writeup, thanks! Question: How long did it take the U.S. to figure out that bin Laden was responsible for the attack? IIRC, bin Laden took credit for the attack afterwards, but how did they confirm that he wasn't just lying for attention/fundraising?
This is a question for mods and historians. How accurate is the book Looming Tower?
Oh cool. Since we're on this topic, I just wanted to talk about a recent documentary I watched called the "power of nightmare" in which the documentary maker assert that Al Qaeda was not a terrorist network but rather a loose group of people who received funding from Osama and went to carry out their own terrorist attacks. The assertion is that the neo-Conservative wanted to create a common enemy to combat the decay brought about by the Liberal policies, and thus the enemy they had created was "imaginary" and that the attack was an act carried out only by Osama money, but otherwise was not a vast terrorist network.
How grounded in truth is that? Also, was it really a neo-Conservative agenda to build a country foundation myth as asserted by the documentary? While I'm not a conspiracy nuts, "the power of nightmare" felt like the first time I'm witnessing conspiracy theories first hand...
Where does the 20 year rule come from? I understand the reason why people would use it, but to think you can teach history without applying it to the present seems absurd
(Note: The United States, though the CIA, was funding the Afhgan freedom fighters against the Soviets. The funding didn’t end until 1992.)
Did you mean "through the CIA"? Otherwise great writeup thanks for the information!
I hope there are more questions about Salvador Allende this September as well.
Also because this is a meta thread and we can express opinions, war is bad and every war is based on lies.
A motto for AskHistorians 2023: "If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie."
I think most people around at that time, and old enough to process what was happening, have a, "before 9/11" and "after 9/11" view of American history and the world, it being such a scarring demarcation point for all of us. There hadn't been another moment similar in scope, at least in my mind, until the pandemic.
I have a question on the use of "freedom fighters" to describe Mujahideen. I certainly don't mean to impose a relativism, but I am wondering if there is a historical agreement and consensus on their nature and whether this term is objective to describe them as a whole. I see elsewhere in this thread that the groups that received US aid are distinguished from bin Laden's groups. However, I recall in the '80s that in the Cold War in Central America, the language used by the Reagan Administration seemed hyperbolic and propagandistic, almost Orwellian, comparing the Nicaraguan contras to the Founding Fathers of the US, for example. These groups in Afghanistan were certainly fighting a puppet government imposed through military force, but how many would have been fighting to establish something like the Taliban that we in the West would not consider on the side of "freedom"? Would they not be consequential without support of Saudi outsiders? How different would this situation be considered from the Viet Cong in Vietnam fighting the US?
Thanks for the awesome summary, it was very informative!
I got a couple follow up questions, let me know if any of them would work better as a standalone post:
What was airport security like before 9/11?
How was Rudy Giuliani viewed before the attacks?
I heard that several tv stations showed footage of Palestinians celebrating on the day, have any historians studied the Palestinian reaction to 9/11 in more detail? Is there even enough material for a historian to study this topic?
What was the conspiracy theory community like in 2001 and how quickly did it react to the attacks? Did new conspiracy minded groups appear in relative separation from the earlier ones or was there continuity in general?
Great write up. I would suggest reference to Shah Masoud and the Northern alliance not just “rebels” as they were significant factors in the battle against Taliban and Al Qaeda doing most of the fighting. So much so Osama targeted Masoud for assassination 9/10.
I was eleven when President John Kennedy was assassinated. I remember it clearly, through television coverage. The same with the assassination of Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr.
The murders of students at Kent State. The police riots at the Chicago Democratic Convention.
9/11. That horrible day. I still have to turn away at the sight of those planes crashing into WTC buildings.
BLM beatings, police shooting people.
I've left out a lot of horrible events, naturally. Wars, starvation, pandemics.
I have no magic wand to make it all vanish. But my thanks to historians who bring facts, context and an educated perspective. I will share this post with my grandchildren who are too young to remember, but old enough to understand.
Thank you so much for this post!
Two questions:
Firstly, is it possible to estimate when we will get a comprehensive history of 9/11 that deals with the background, the events of the day and the aftermath? Something like Midnight in Chernobyl? Is it even possible or fair to expect such a history given that the US government may simply keep a huge number of relevant documents classified?
Secondly, would it be possible for someone to review some of the "oral histories" about 9/11 that are already available? I was thinking of books like The Only Plane in the Sky I quite liked the book, but since it presents only some eyewitness testimonies, I am not sure about the completeness of the picture presented.
How did the 1993 WTC attack influence the planning process of 9/11? Obviously, a switch from bombs to planes took place but do we have insights into why and when that plan was made? You spoke briefly about target selection: was the renewed targetting of the WTC just "coincidence" or were both attacks tied together more strongly then by just the attacking organization? Did the WTC seem like a target hard to reach (and save) for first responders?
He objected to the US occupying Islam’s holy places (which included the Gulf War occupation), and had specific grievance with the US's continued support of Israel and the Saudi royals. For him, it was clearly not just a religious matter, but also personal and political.
Why did American occupation continue after the first Gulf War?
I've heard a lot, constantly, about how 9/11 was basically America's fault for its interventionism. That America "made a mess of the region." How much truth is there to that and how much did that have an effect on bin Laden's motivations?
Did any of the terrorists who the CIA fund in that area turn around and attack America or is that a myth?
Thanks for the amazing write-up. I was still a kid when the attacks happened, so it's quite interesting to hear details about the world before-hand. A few follow-up questions:
I remember a common reaction after the attacks (especially among kids) was why didn't the passengers overwhelm/fight the hijackers, and being told that prior to 9/11 the general expectation was that passengers would survive a hijacking (Because it was a fugitive trying to escape or get hostages). Would you say that's true? Was there any real precedent for this kind of all-out suicidal hijacking?
Hunter S Thompson wrote a now quite famous essay the day after the attacks where he predicted that this would be the start of a never-ending war. I know the general consensus was definitely that some form of war was inevitable, but how "out there" was the idea that the US would end up in a never-ending series of war and terrorist attacks? Were any more "mainstream" commentators predicting this sort of thing?
Bin Laden was very quickly identified in the Press as the potential mastermind of the attacks (even the Thompson essay from the next day mentions him), he was clearly well-known to the intelligence services and the White House, but how well-known was he to the American public? Was he a known figure from the news?
Thanks again!
Thank you so much for this write-up and for keeping the community open to difficult topics like this!
It’s still getting to me how the moments I have and continue to live through are the history of the future and the now. If I’ve learned anything from this sub, it is how much the survival of sources determine how we continue to remember the past.
While I’m helpless to stop the tragedies that have already occurred when I was little more than an egg, I want to do my part to hold institutional and civilian actors accountable for what happened and what has spiraled into larger ongoing tragedies. (This includes myself, for whatever my part is in all this.) I also want to see those who suffered leading up to and following the attacks to be represented as they are in the future, even though many are barely represented as they are now.
So... is there anything that I, random person, can do in terms of preserving primary sources about 9/11 and its continued hold on events/movements for future historians?
I guess I’m also curious about what “holes” are forming in terms of our record on these events. I mean this less in terms of “poking holes” into a narrative and more in terms of “what voices could be better represented in oral history collections on the topic?” or “what does digital decay mean for the future study of online patterns of behavior/belief surround 9/11?” What are some interview projects or other archiving efforts to which you may recommend I contribute?
Many thanks, and Happy New Year!
I find it fascinating to read the comments here, where people are describing how they feel about 9/11. I was technically alive during that day, but was so young that I have no memory of the event, and to me it is most certainly history. I think even just having lived through it makes people perceive the media around it differently than I do. I find I rarely even hear about 9/11 anymore outside of wacko conspiracy theorists (and Rudy Giuliani, although six of one...) although I suspect the history side of 9/11 becoming more prominent will change that, at least for me.
Thank you for this. A lot of contextual pieces of information that had been missing from the cacophony of ‘news’ while we lived through this time.
Some points I disagree with regarding the events of the day, but I have learned to live with the few things I believe and do not try argue my position anymore. I will say some of what was written did soften a few of my beliefs and for that, thank you.
I remember in PA primary schools we had a small memorial every 9/11 until roughly 2011.
I think it is an excellent idea to go ahead and let it pass into the sub now. Many users will not even have been born when it happened and frankly, schools are not that great at addressing it so it is a positive thing for people to have this as a resource
I will NEVER forget Sept. 9th 2001...
https://www.npr.org/2011/09/09/140328019/a-decade-ago-massouds-assassination-preceded-sept-11
I distinctly remember seeing the news of his killing on the nightly news and thinking, 'Oh shit'
BTW his dead was due to a fake 2 man TV crew that blew up a bomb hidden in a camera...."Massoud was assassinated at the instigation of al-Qaeda and the Taliban in a suicide bombing on September 9, 2001."
9/11 - The Naudet brothers documentary from 2002, it really puts the firefighters story in perspective. It’s tough to watch at points as they were following the crew from Firehouse 1. Battalion chief Joseph Pfeifer was the first to call in the plane crash into the North Tower, as he saw it happen from where he was standing on Church and Lispenard street. One of only 3 known video footage of the plane crashing, and some of the only footage from inside the towers as the NYFD were attempting to coordinate the rescue efforts. They were also filming the collapse as it happened from the inside. Highly recommended watching.
Their task was to intercept and destroy any hijacked airliner that might attempt to enter DC airspace. The rapidity of the order, however, meant that the F-16s were sent out unarmed. As a result, both pilots were acutely aware that their orders were, essentially, to commit suicide. They would have had to ram the incoming B757, with Sasseville ordering Penney to strike the tail while he would strike the nose. The chances of a successful ejection would have been minuscule.
This is interesting to me, as I have not heard about this kamikaze-style order being given. Was this a top down order or something Sasserville came up with "on the fly"?
Has either pilot commented since about whether he would have followed through with this plan had they arrived in time?
Does US military code/law allow for orders of this nature? Have there been similar "suicide orders" given in the past, and were they carried out?
Has there ever been any factual evidence of what the 4th target was supposed to be?
Fantastic write-up. I remember the movie Zeitgeist talking at length about how 9/11 was orchestrated and there's a particular claim it made that I'd like to ask about, to separate the fact from fiction.
According to the author and the people interviewed, there were training exercises with the exact same scenario - hijacked commercial flights - happening at the exact same time as the attacks, which confused the response. A cursory check on Wikipedia says these were Global Guardian and Vigilant Guardian. Apparently the author Michael Ruppert claimed that
General Arnold, Tech. Sgt. W. Powel and Lt. Col. Dwane Deskins have stated that when they first were informed about hijacked airliners they thought it was "part of the exercise".
Anyway thanks for the great read!
Just want to say thank you to you all for posting this. So much valuable information that I believe a majority of the population does not even remotely know about. I think it is so important to have at least some of the facts and keep this history alive. I have actually married into a family who lost a father in the North tower who was working at one of the firms above the impact and they have reminders of him all over the house just to keep him alive. Growing up distant from the city and then moving to the area are two completely different experiences. Here in Long Island there are memorials in every town because so many were lost and it brings home the human connection. Every year we go to a ceremony and I have noticed the crowd is slowly dwindling. I’m sure this year will be large because of it being the 20th anniversary but after it is so crucial to keep their memories alive because of how much impact this date has had on our nation and the world in so many ways. I know this was a little bit of a rambling but if anyone has any questions on what it’s like to be part of a large Irish-American family that has lost someone please message me. Have a safe and healthy 2021
How did other countries respond to the 9/11 attacks? Did the US have to convince other leaders to go on the Osama man hunt or did they extend a hand for help?
This is a great read, it is really delighted for me as I was born on 2002, around one year after the event (miss a few date till the 1 year anniversary). However, base on my parents' stories, the emotion was quite mixed in Vietnam. Many feels sorry for the victims while many think USA deserved it. It is quite a common belief that USA themselves created the terrorists to get punished by themselves. This reading however give me many new POV from the events that is rarely mention in VN media.
Great write-up. I was in middle school on Long Island on 9/11 and remember a commercial airliner crashing near Far Rockaway two months after the attacks. People assumed the worst. And the anthrax chapter. Scary times
Good luck fending off the truthers.
Why isn't Operation Infinite Reach mentioned in this summary? That seems like a pretty big hole in the narrative.
Was their ever any investigation or cause to investigate stock sales immediately prior to 9/11?
I remember a lot of people believing there was smoke but not if there was any fire.
Thank you for that thorough recap.
I was quite interested in the towers collapsed as ran into a misleading documentary in 2006 pushing the conspiracy theory for their controlled demolition.
I will be looking forward associated threads that, I hope, will help me debunk what I still feel as "too big not to have been planned either side". Thank you for upcoming insights !
Edit: maybe my post needs to contain a question so here's what it'd be : What are today the best factual source that could debunk the controlled demolition of the WTC towers ?
What's the 20 year rule?
The fourth plane, United Airlines Flight 93, crashed into a field in rural Pennsylvania. The passengers on the plane were able to overwhelm the enforcers and break into the cockpit. The crash caused no structural damage, and took no lives, on the ground.
Can someone explain what the last sentence means? I thought everyone on board died?
I didn't realize how interesting that period is. I never really thought too much about it, more about history before that. Where can I find sources that can shed more light around 9/11 and what happens after?
Earlier that same year, the CIA established a special unit, based in Tysons Corner, Virginia
Did this unit involve many (or any) of the Navy Seals stationed nearby? If not, is there any knowledge about the general composition of the team in terms of what their background was?
Great write up.
Oh boy, here we go.
:D
Two Questions: What were bin Laden's goals and did he accomplish them? His citizenship was revoked by Saudi Arabia, but is there any evidence the Saudi gov't played a role in the attacks? I recall stories alleging that they were connected, aware, or complicit in funding the attacks.
Its been on my mind for years now that 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq would soon be allowed on here. I couldn't wait until 9/11 but glad to hear its more about the year than it being literally 20 years
Would the Iraq War be 2023 then? or will the fallout of 9/11 be allowed as a follow through rule.
The joint US-British effort to eliminate the Taliban began on October 7
Is this referring to Task Force Dagger?
Thank you for this write up. I understand that everything cannot be covered in a single write-up. I have a question about the below paragraph - what happened between 93 and 01 - seems like a time-jump and was curious. Thanks again!
Earlier that same year, the CIA established a special unit, based in Tysons Corner, Virginia, specifically for tracking Osama bin Laden They searched for a reason to bring charges, and finally had a break when Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl (code named "Junior"), one of the first to give allegiance to Osama, approached the Americans. He had stolen $100,000 from Osama and needed protection. In return, he offered details about organizational charts and most importantly, a way to connect Osama to the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu in 1993. The CIA was working to gather enough evidence such that if the opportunity presented itself, he could be taken into custody for conspiring to attack the United States.
Meanwhile, the CIA worked to raise alarms among the military and intelligence communities.
When George W. Bush won the presidency in 2000 and first met Clinton at the White House, Clinton said
I think you will find that by far your biggest threat is bin Laden and the al-Qaeda
I'm new to this sub reddit, so can someone explain what taboo subject the OP was referring too?
This is fascinating. Looking forward to more discussion and debate on this. I’m British but we felt the shock deeply here. It was the day after my 16th birthday when it happened and I remember going into school the next day our history teacher talking about how this would be viewed from a historical POV. Just can’t believe I’m now the age where it IS history.
Well I didn’t actively experience 9/11 but it is interesting in as far as it was relatively quickly made into a historical turning point, from the Cold War era into the modern era with a war on terror. Now this diagnosis seems rather unfitting and 9/11 and the following wars seem like the begin of a decline of the us, that was accelerated by the financial crisis and the unsolvable gridlock in internal politics. Though from that perspective it seems not as important and could be included in a longer timeline that reaches back into the 90s. What I’m trying to say that by now 9/11 did not turn out as the big historical turning point that some in the years directly after predicted it would be
(Note: The United States, though the CIA
through