Hello all. I am a New Yorker with English heritage - my father was born in England and I have many extended family there that we are all close with. I have been wanting to get a tattoo symbolizing my background and recently have been on the idea of getting a Tudor Rose, seeing as it would tie in New York well (rose is the state flower).
I’ve been researching the history of the Tudor Rose in order to see if this would be the right thing for me. While I love the look of it and have a good feeling about my idea (the England - New York tie in), I have some thoughts that are holding me back and require more research. Apart from the information readily available via quick Google search, I’ve been struggling to find much else, or perhaps much else that relates to my thoughts.
Here is what is hanging me up: Isn’t the Tudor Rose essentially a symbol of British Imperialism? Of the white man reigning? How problematic is the Tudor Rose in a modern context? The Tudor Rose is seen in so contemporary uses: a prominent emblem in many towns and cities (Yorkshire flag, for one, in addition to the Queens County flag in New York City), the badge of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, a watch company, etc. Ah, but Mississippi had the confederate flag on their state flag up until 2020! Just because it’s on an official coat of arms doesn’t mean it’s okay!…. Obviously, the confederate flag carries a much different meaning in general than the Tudor Rose, but maybe you see the point I’m trying to make and the discussions I’m having with myself.
I am on a complex topic here and appreciate any feedback. I would love to read more on this, and am open to (and interested in!) checking out some books on this topic. I hope this question is appropriate for this sub, I have read the FAQ, and can ask it elsewhere if needed.
I know from the rules of this sub that I should expect in-depth answers, but I would like to note that I am already a fairly heavily tattooed person, and would like to keep this conversation away from: “if you’re struggling with these thoughts you shouldn’t get it tattooed” and the simple “well, you’re getting the tattoo of a symbol of British Imperialism! English aristocracy! Of course it’s problematic!” Yes, and people get the American Flag tattooed, among many other symbols. I wish to go a little deeper and focus on what the meaning behind the Tudor Rose is as a symbol, in the modern day. I included the tattoo information from the start to give context and show the weight of my research motivation.
Thanks in advance for any comments and insight.
I'm not sure where you got the connotation of the Tudor Rose being a negative symbol, or a particularly pointed symbol at all.
The Tudor Rose formed from the joining of two royal bloodlines, the Lancastrian and York. The combination of the roses was to cement the validity of Henry VII's rule in a medieval form of propaganda. The War of the Roses was the last time the crown passed through [primarily] right of conquest. Although the Tudor line ended with Elizabeth I, Tudor blood, or rather the York/Lancastrian blood, continued through James I.
If the Spanish Armada had successfully invaded in Elizabeth's reign, for example, it's rather assured the Tudor Rose would have been removed from England.
Since that wasn't the case, the Tudor Rose is a symbol from an important turning point in English history. It paved the way for the future joint dynasty, and resulted in successors who steered England toward Reformation. The Tudor Rose is a symbol of England, not imperialism itself. It was created as a method of showing dynastic unity in what was a shaky succession at the time. 'Look, we've got both houses here, we're lovely, move along'.
The Confederate Flag was very much created as a banner for supporters of slavery.
There are racist zealots and the like who proudly wave the American flag, it doesn't alter the reason it was created or mean they've hijacked what it now stands for.
The Tudor Rose is a symbol for England that originated in the medieval equivalent of a royal facebook status update.