Hey there, I’m sorry if the title is kind of stupid. I’m tired, but the basis of the question is that I’m currently working on a novel (fantasy fiction) and trying to figure out some ideas. It’s a bit hard to explain, but I’m trying to navigate time periods here. One of the characters is a girl from around the late Archaic Greek Historic Period. I wanted the other character to be from a different region, currently with the thought of them being from Wales around that period if possible (not sure what the proper way to refer to it is, I’ve seen Cambria and Cymry,.) So, here is my problem, did these two groups exist at the same time period? I don’t need them to have interacted in actual history, since the story plot has the capability of mostly explaining that, but I just need a confirmation of existence around the same time period. I have tried to Google, but I have a habit of getting confused on overlapping the BC/AD time periods, especially now that a lot of sources are moving to BCE/CE.
I mean theoretically since I’m working with fantasy fiction, I could just throw some magical explanation for it, but I’d feel a lot safer if I could work from at least that much of a historic angle and I’d like to see if I can avoid the risk of it reading like total BS without a giant problem explanation on my part.
If they didn’t, what are some other good options? Also, if they did, then what is the best way to refer to Wales at this time? And, does anyone have any good resources for Welsh culture at the time? I have a lot on my own, but I’d like to expand my resources if possible.
Hi, Welsh speaker here with a passion for old Welsh and Greek history!
Firstly, the modern word describing the country of Wales is "Cymru" (pronounced "cum-ree" but with pursed lips for the second syllable), which comes from the Welsh term "Cymru" which means "brothers" or "kinsmen", which itself comes from the old Brittonic term "Cymbrogi" which means the same thing.
What's interesting to note is that Wales around this time wasn't what it is now, it was never a single nation and was, in fact, a group of kingdoms. The Britons (who became the Welsh, Cornish, Scotti and Bretons) were found all over the British island and isles and, as I'm sure is your intention, existed similarly to the Greeks in how disunified their culture was. I can't speak for time periods but by late Archaic Greece, I'm assuming you mean a century or two after the usual placement of Homer at C7th/C8th BCE? There would've been Celtic people on Britain who would've spoken a language which became Welsh but it also was a language which became Cornish and Breton because they weren't separate. When looking back on British history there's technical issue using the term "Welsh", in that it's almost like using the term "Athenian" to describe all of Ancient Greece, it's a broad term used by the Anglo-Saxons ("Walis" - foreigner) to describe those people they pushed into the corners of Britain about 1000 years after you seem to be basing your story.
Basically, there was a Celtic Brittonic culture in Britain, which is the direct ancestor to the Welsh, which was there around the time that you are basing this narrative, and a good, accurate term to use would be "Cymbrogi" (or whatever version of that term you can find which suits your purpose). I hope this can help!
I can hopefully answer this for you, but I’m unfamiliar with the late archaic Greek historic period, a quick google search tells me this was from 650-480 BC, so I’ll answer your question within that timeline.
By old Welsh, I’m assuming you mean the language, which is a term given to Welsh inscriptions and texts around the 6th-9th centuries [1]. Which would mean they outdate your Ancient Greek character by at least 1000 years.
However, this does not mean your character couldn’t be from Wales, just that it might not be in the way you have imagined it. ‘Wales’ in this period did not exist in the modern sense, it was instead a collection of about 4 tribes who occupied different areas of the landmass [2].
Anyone living in Greece at this time may have not even heard of the island. Trade between Britain and Gaul did exist [3], and the link between these two lands formed part of the justification for Julius Caesar’s two failed invasions in 55 and 54 BC [2], but this was 400 years prior to the setting of your Greek character, and again they would not be Welsh.
Instead, they would have been Celtic, or Brittonic to be more specific [4]. And the Greeks would have certainly known about the Celts. Celtic armies attacked Delphi in 280 BC, and Rome in 390 BC [5], and while these Celts were not the same people as the ones living in Britain, they shared an very similar culture [5].
So in summary, the old Welsh language did not exist in 650-480 BC, but it’s predecessor, the Celtic Britons, did. Your character could easily be a Briton from modern day Wales, but again their culture would have been vastly different to the Welsh culture that would develop around 1000 years later, so unfortunately any sources you have on old Welsh culture would be out of date.
If you do decide to have your character from Wales, the best way to refer to it at this time would be Britain, or Britannia like the Romans called it, or research if it was in any Ancient Greek writings and see what they called it.
(And this would refer to the whole island, as a distinct Welsh identity would not yet emerge for over 1000 years).
I hope this helps!
Sources:
Davies, J. (2007). A History of Wales. London: Penguin Books, pp.19–25, 67–68.
[1]p.67-68
[2]p.25
[3]p.19-25
[4]p.19-22
[5]p.22
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