I’m Alex von Tunzelmann, author of five books, most recently ‘Fallen Idols: Twelve Statues That Made History' -- shortlisted for the Wolfson History Prize 2022. AMA about statues, empire and historical storytelling!

by AlexvonTunzelmann

I’m a historian with specialisms in international Cold War politics, imperialism and post-imperialism, and forms of historical storytelling: including film and TV, and of course statues. I’m also a screenwriter working mostly on historical drama – so I am extremely interested in both the making and busting of historical myths.

Here’s the book cover copy from my most recent book, Fallen Idols:

In 2020, statues across the world were pulled down in an extraordinary wave of global iconoclasm inspired by Black Lives Matter protests. From the United States and United Kingdom to Canada, South Africa, the Caribbean, India, Bangladesh and New Zealand, protesters defaced and hauled down statues of slaveholders, Confederates and imperialists. Edward Colston was hurled into the harbour in Bristol, England. Robert E. Lee was covered in graffiti in Richmond, Virginia. Christopher Columbus was toppled in Minnesota, beheaded in Massachusetts, and thrown into a lake in Virginia. King Leopold II of the Belgians was set on fire in Antwerp and doused in red paint in Ghent. Winston Churchill was daubed with the word “racist” in London.

Statues are one of the most visible – and controversial – forms of historical storytelling. The stories we tell about history are vital to how we, as societies, understand our past and create our future.

So whose stories do we tell? Who or what defines us? What if we don’t all agree? How is history made, and why?

Fallen Idols takes twelve statues in modern history. It looks at why they were put up; the stories they were supposed to tell; why those stories were challenged; and how they came down.

My previous books are:

‘Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire’; ‘Red Heat: Conspiracy, Murder and the Cold War in the Caribbean’; ‘Blood and Sand: Suez, Hungary and the Crisis that Shook the World’; ‘Reel History: The World According to the Movies.’

You can buy my books at any good bookshop, real or online, and at Amazon globally. http://www.linktr.ee/alexvt

Meanwhile -- fire away!

Abrytan

Hi Alex, thanks for doing this AMA! As someone who grew up in Bristol it's been really interesting watching Edward Colston's legacy be introduced to the world. In school we were taught the old phrase that "every brick in Bristol was cemented with the blood of a slave" but I didn't realise people outside the city were so oblivious to its role in the trade.

Given the apparent popularity of tearing down statues, I'm curious how you selected the shortlist - are there any statues that you wanted to write about but couldn't fit in?

DrDavidPin

Hi Alex, great book (as, by the by, are the other four!). One thing that came to mind, particularly while reading the chapter on King Leopold (given my knowledge of his crime was shamefully vague) was whether, contrary to their original purpose, such statues can serve a useful purpose in highlighting that history. Or is it just morally wrong to have a monument intended to glorify someone who (by any objective measure) was 'bad'?

Cedric_Hampton

Hello! Thanks for doing this AMA, and congrats on the short-list.

You might address this in your book, but what do you think should be done with problematic but historical sculptures like Colston's in Bristol and Lee's in Richmond after they've been removed? Contextualized in a museum or reused to create a new meaningful artwork perhaps?

ForsakenDrawer

If you talk to friends who don’t necessarily think of history as a subjective thing open to critique/change (those who think history just “is”), do you see a change in their thinking or a heightened awareness given the events of the past few years?

notbroke_brokenin

Hi and thanks!

I'm a few chapters in to Fallen Idols. Fantastic stuff. What was the research process like, and how does the role of statues differ from country to country?

You also describe certain fashions or trends, such as Cumberland being mounted on a (big) horse. Are there examples of statues being recontextualised by a change in position, eg by bringing one down off a plinth?

DontKillTheWarCrier

Nothing to ask, but I wanted to say I loved Red Heat! I always recommend it when people ask for something on the Caribbean.

dorylinus

Having spent several years living in Taiwan, I was struck by the discourse there at the time over removing or relocating images of Chiang Kai-Shek, even during the (democratic) rule of the KMT during the Ma administration. Considering this was happening later than the famous, and superficially similar, removal of statuary in the former USSR, it also seemed to be a much less emotionally charged process than the aggressive destruction of statuary of Lenin and other communist figures. As a result, I'm curious as to how these events happen, what drives them specifically to be more or less antagonistic, and what sort of direction does it lead society-- as in, does the removal of once-ubiquitous symbolism create a void or wide-scale resentment in segments of a population (and inversely relief or joy in others) that has noticeable and traceable effects? Does removal of statuary itself actually help shape the grand narrative of a nation, or is it just a reflection of other trends? In short, what does it lead to?

Obviously any specific insights about Taiwan you might share are especially welcome, but I'd also be interested in other examples that might illustrate this.

crrpit

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the recent(ish) statue/sculpture put up to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft in London? It struck me as an interesting contrast to the individualism of statues of 'great men' that your book focuses on, but also kind of disappointing given how few statues of women there are in London/anywhere that the artist went with a 'generic' woman rather than a more specific representation of Wollstonecraft. Am I being fair? Do these kinds of modern statues simply serve different purposes, and striving for more equal representation in terms of great women on plinths is fighting the wrong battle?

Bernardito

Hi Alex! Beyond your own fantastic book, what are some other works about the role played by statues in historical memory would you recommend to readers interested in learning more?

EpilepticFits1

Hey Alex, I've been listening to Indian Summer for the second time and I am struck by how much of the book is a biography of Lord and Lady Mountbatten. In comparison, M.A. Jinnah is almost treated as a supporting character. Is there a reason we get a full history of Louis Mountbatten but less thorough descriptions of Jinnah's or Nehru's lives before partition?

Also, I notice that you avoid the accusations of pedophilia on Mountbatten's part altogether. I realize that his sexual peculiarities aren't immediately relevant to the story of partition. But with such thorough treatment of the rest of his intimate life, at least mentioning the possibility that he was a pedophile would seem appropriate when you spend dozens of pages dealing with his other peculiarities. So is there a reason you steer clear of the subject altogether?

sabrali

I saw a documentary about a city even more well preserved after the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius and they scanned some of the statues, (as well as many other things found), and it showed how vibrantly they were originally painted. Now that we have the ability to do that, do you think it will become common for exhibits to place photos of scans showing what objects originally looked like? Is that already a thing and I just don’t get out enough?

Obligatory questions I’m sure you’re tired of: What’s your favorite statue covered in your book and why? Do you prefer busts or big honkin statues?

Adventurous_Laugh_47

Hello Alex, I haven’t read your book (yet), but from looking at it all your examples are from Early Modern or Modern History. As a medievalist myself, I was just wondering what your thoughts are, if any, on Medieval statues (Byzantine Iconoclasm comes to mind). Are there any Conceptional differences in how you perceive the role of statues in a Pre-modern context (as in pre-1500)?

Gankom

Thank you for this fantastic AMA! I'd like to go into slightly different direction and ask; how do you use your experience as a historian when screenwriting historical dramas? I'm sure historical storytelling must be a big boon for that! Do you have any tips/tricks, or maybe an interesting perspective on how its worked for you?

AbsalomGate123

Thanks for doing this session! I watched a couple of vox pops with people in the aftermath of the UK statue debate who weren't sure why the statues were coming down and viewed it as a kind of cancel culture extension. How can we best engage with people who aren't necessarily plugged in to historical debate on this topic, and what ways can we educate people on a more nuanced picture of Empire and racism in British history?

hellcatfighter

Hi Alex, many thanks for doing this AMA! Was wondering what makes statues so controversial as compared to other forms of historical memorisation, for example paintings, plaques or memorabilia? Is it because of their prominence in urban landscapes, their connections with public or private institutions, the public nature of their display, or some other factor (or factors)?

JaVaiTarde

In Sao Paulo, Brazil, there is a very controversial statue that depicts men who enslaved natives as heroic figures. I hate it! But the sculptor went on to become famous, and the statue itself is considered important in the history of modern art in Brazil. Are there examples of statues taken down even tho they have artistic value?

mayor_rishon

Hello, I was not aware of the book but shall certainly will put it in my wish list.

A question over monuments: Greece incorporated the Holocaust as part of its history rather late from the 00s onwards. Public monuments have been poignantly discreet, often met with public opposition and always have been payed by the Jewish communities themselves.

Is there are any example of the victims themselves paying for their public commemoration in public settings ?

10z20Luka

Hi Alex, thanks for the AMA!

Do you think more could be done to democratize the removal of problematic statues? I understand that due process may be a slow, grueling ordeal, but is the spontaneous action of a small group of dedicated individuals the only alternative?

dhowlett1692

Thanks for doing this AMA! How recent is the idea of removing statues but relocating them to a museum with context versus the destruction of a statue (by protest or state action)? Is removal with preservation vs removal for/by destruction new for Confederate statues?

some_random_nonsense

What was your favorite or most interesting to research statue?

Kelpie-Cat

Hi, your research sounds very interesting! I have two questions for you.

  1. Are you familiar with the book Where Are the Women? by Sara Sheridan? I found it a really interesting and eye-opening reckoning with public commemorative practices, particularly statuary. Besides the fact that it made me realise just how male-dominated public commemoration is, there are also a lot of creative ideas in it for different styles of commemorative public art. I'm wondering whether you're aware of this book and if so, what you thought of some of Sheridan's ideas.
  2. The statues of the Kim family in North Korea are ubiquitous, enormous, and require particular rituals of respect which can get someone arrested if they don't obey. Have you found similar examples in your research where behaviours towards statues are mandated by law (aside from laws against causing damage to a statue)?
indyobserver

Hi Alex! Congrats on the most recent shortlist (and don't be shy about the Economist one as well!)

I want to follow up your answer to the question by /u/Gankom by asking a bit more about, "(a)s a screenwriter, I'm trying to tell the best story I can and everything else - including facts - have to fit around that." Can you talk a bit more about how you approach a screenplay in terms of deciding what the main story you're going to tell consists of and then trying to figure out what must be presented close to historical facts versus what can be adapted for sake of narrative?

Also, I know there's a strain of thought that argues historical docudrama is something we're seeing less and less of in film releases nowadays; is that what you're seeing in inquiries as a screenwriter as well, where it's shifted to far more television?

Last, by all means, if you're ever interested in sticking around and answering a few regular questions on your areas, please feel free (even if it's under a nom de plume) - several of your interests do come up here a bunch!

Tatem1961

Many of the largest statues of the world are in Asia. Any ideas on why that happens to be the case?