Hello

So that you know i joust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64AzHIdgKw and i practice Hema mainly (MS Dresd.C.487) known a the ringeck 15th century German fencing and I have ridden horses for 40 years (ultra classical French).

The academic studies of original fencing manual is scare and I am looking at it it from a martial perspective.

So we have to turn to the original manuscript of their transcription. So i have given the transcription in bold and my translation. Since the text is sometimes cryptic i cross referenced with Starhemberg Fechtbuch (Cod.44.A.8) from 1452 and the 1534-40 "The Goliath Fechtbuch (MS germ. quart. 2020)" which both contains the a very similar texts.

In any case you will find the transcription (from martin Siebert in the late 60) and my translation. So you can make your own mind. i am martially minded but my real job is IT security and it is written in language that no-one has spoken for 400 years so it is very unlikely that i got the 123 page right..

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TL,DNR

Fighting on horse with a lance is described in several fencing manuals of the 14th early 16th century.

The manual is study tell us that the hitting people across the horse neck is the "best" way (if you have a choice that is) to go about it but that the techniques works from both side, and that you should deflect the your opponent strike as you line up yours. using a lance is not the only option , there are technique for wrestling and fencing on horse in manual as well.

In practice the technique will works with thin spear or a heavy lances, with anything from 2 meters to 4.

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Where does it come

The manual (MS Dresd.C.487) is part of Liechtenauer fencing tradition that spanned, as far as we know from the Pol Hausbuch (MS 3227a) known as well as the Dobringer manual. from 1398 (we think) to Johachim Meyer fencing manual 1561 MS Bibl. 2465 (Munich), the 1568 MS A.4º.2 (Lund), and the MS Var. 82 (Rostock),

The tradition is so called because paulus Kal names as series of master as part of the Fellowship of Liechtenauer (Geselschaft Liechtenauers) and because either the gloss are attributed in the text to lichtanauer itself or modern researchers have seen a similarity in technique or text

(MS Dresd.C.487) is difficult to date , the current consensus is that it an early 1500 (from a watermark) copy of a now lost early version.

I have seen that change multiple times in the last 20 years, and to be frank from a martial stand point it is somewhat moot since we found the technique across several other manual accross the 15th century. As far as i know, the mounted lances technique are in 3 manuals.

The distribution of the manuscript is 1, since it is dedicated to the count palatin Albrecht (since there was Albrecht between 1353 and 1540 the jury is still out one that one)

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How it works

you usually have the Liechtenauer mnemonique verses (from Liechtenauer ), which i have put between <>

it is followed but the explanation of what that vers covers (in bold)

then you have a rough translation of what i think it means in englis.

i have put the page of teh manuscript with ()

I have started at the top of the fencing on horse section,

(110 r) Hie hept sich an die ritterlich kunst: das fechten zuo roß.

here you have the knightly art : fencing on horse

Hie hept sich an maister Johannsen Liechtennawers fechten zu roß, das erhat lassen schriben mitt verborgen vnd verdöcten Worten. Vnnd stet her nachglosiert vnnd vßgelegt, daß es ain yettlicher fechter wol vernemen mag, deränderst fechten kan oder waisst.

Here you have the fencing on horse of master johaness Liechtennauer that He had written with cryptic and obscure words and that stands hereafter glossified and put down that if there is a any fencer that cares to decrypt then, he is be able to fight differently or improve

<Din sper berichte, gegen rytten macht zu nichte.>

Glosa.

Daß ist: wann du hast ain glefen (110 v) vnd ain anderer och aine vnd mittdir zu samen will ryttenn, so solt du dich mitt diner glefen also wissen zuschicken, daß du im die sinen ablaytest vnd treffest mitt dem stich vnnd erdich nicht. Vnd die stucke solt du wissen zu tryben mitt dem sper vß zwayenhüten, die dir her nach genennt werden.

arrange you spear, riding against such he does not

That is when you have a lance and the another as well and you will ride against each other, so you are to with your lance so know to arrange/level/align ) that you in his works, drive with the trust and he does not. And the pieces you are to know how to drive from the two guards with the spear, which are hereafter written.

==> basically deflect his point as you place yours.

Der text von den stucken vß der ersten hutt.

<Ob es enpfalle, dem ende jm abschnalle>.

Daß ist, wenn du mitt im zu samen ryttest, so halt din glefen vnder dinemarm zu dem stich. Vnd wenn es kumpt zu dem treffen, so thu, alß sy dir (111 r) ze schwer sy. Vnd lauß sy mitt dem ort vornen nider sincken vff dinlincke sytten. Rytt er dann vff dich mitt ainem stich, so heb din glefen über-sich mitt störck an die sinen, so triffst du in mitt vnnd er dich nitt, wann singlefe get neben dir besytz ab.

The text from the piece out of the first guard

If it slant, his end chip

That is when you ride against each other. So hold you lance under your under your arms for the thrust and it comes to the drive do as if you were sick and let the point sink in from and below onto the left side. Rides he then with a thrust so lift your lance with strength over itself at his, so you drive at him with it and he does not.

==>You knock on top his lance to send it of line and away from you and your horse from under. Like a deflecting a jo or a bo from the inside out.

Ain stuck vß der anderen hutt.

Item, wann du mitt im zu samen ryttest, so halt din glefen mitt baydenhenden in der mitten. Rytt er dann vff dich mitt ainem stich, so schlach mittdem vordem tail diner gleffen die sine vff din rechte sytten von dir abe vndwind din glefen (111 v) do mitt vnnder dinen rechten arm, so triffest du invnd er dich nitt.

A piece from the second guard

Item when you riding at each other, do hold your lance with both hands in the middle. Ride he then onto you with a trust. So strike with the part of your lance in front at his onto your right side away from you and wind your lance under your right arm so you drive at him and he does not.

==> This is a two handed technique you , you use use the arming of your lance (ie putting you lance under your arm to drive his point out (from under) and set you in.

Ain stuck mitt der kurtzen glefen gegen der langen zu roß.

Item, wann du haust ain kurtze glefen vnd er ain lange, so rytt gar sittigk-lich gegen im vnd halt im den ort gegen dem gesicht. Vnd wenn es kumptan daß treffen, so lauß den zäwm farn vnd lait im mitt der lincken hand singlefen oben vff din lincke sytten. Vnd rytt für dich, vnd setz im an.

A piece with the short lance against the long one on horse.

Item when you have a short lance and he a long one. So ride visibly prepared (sittih-sithig) against him and hold the point against his face. And when it comes to the drive so let the reins go and lead his lance on the left side with you left hand. And ride him (fur riten= to ride against and set it at him.

===> bat is tip away with your left hands (i know it is very 16h century rapier., but we do that a lot with our left arm in armoured fencing.)

Item, wann ir bayde zu samen ryttent mitt den glefen, ist (112 r) dann sach, daß ir baide do mitt verfelent, wilt du in dann fahen on alles fechten, so laußdie glefen zu hand fallen vnd züch weder schwert noch messer. Vnd winddich mitt diner lincken sytten an syn rechte, vnd wart vff sin rechten armmitt dem hernach geschribnen ringen.

Item when you are riding at each other with the lance, is the fight so that you both miss with unhorsing. will you then miss on all fencing, so let the lance fall from you hand and search for neither sword not Messer and wind your self with you left side at his right side and look for (auf varten = to look for) his right arm with the hereafter described wrestling.

==> if you both miss skipp fencing and go for wrestling.(ie in open hand)

I said there was 4 pieces and just gave you 3 the other piece can be found in the "Vion Dantzig manual.

basically you aim for his head and at the last minute you drop you lance to it him under the arm that will tale his point of line. i personally don't like it as much as those 3 because his point can hit our horse or swipe either of us or both from the saddle. so it is not as certain as those 3 techniques.

I hope that helps

Phil